Did Carl know?

[Carl Childress]

WindyWhoHa suggested I didn't know that a coach could be in the coaching box in a wheelchair. Of course, I did. Here was my short reply to WhoeverHeIs. I thought it should be a separate topic since the new subject might piques more interst than a rehash of who calls what and when.

To What's His Name:

I take extreme umbrage (no grin) to you suggesting I didn't know a coach could be in a wheelchair in the coaching box.

When such a coach was on my field, I made damned sure he kept both feet inside the box.

I wanted to be able to tell the court I kept him where he was supposed to be during live action. Luckily, he never had to wheel out of the way to make room for a fielder to glove a pop up or chase an errant throw, or the pitcher to back up third, or ....

If I had the power, I would relegate "physically disadvantaged coaches" (the ones I considered to be a danger by their presence on the field) to the dugout.

That may not please people connected with the ADA, but it would clearly make those at OSHA happy.

[BigUmp56]

While we're discussing a handicapped or "physically disadvantaged" coach, I'd like to get some opinions on a situation that came up this last summer at the Cooperstown Dreams Park.

During one of the week long tournaments there, an umpire was calling games from a wheelchair. This brought rise to an issue that goes deeper than the sport of baseball in my opinion. The main questions were, can he do his job effectively, and even if he can, is he putting the players at a higher risk of injury.

I can certainly see the downside of allowing this, but I don't see how it could be stopped, or even if it should be stopped for that matter.

Any thought's?

Tim.

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by BigUmp56
During one of the week long tournaments there, an umpire was calling games from a wheelchair. This brought rise to an issue that goes deeper than the sport of baseball in my opinion. The main questions were, can he do his job effectively, and even if he can, is he putting the players at a higher risk of injury.

i remember when this was posted on the ABUA site, and i still feel the same about it. i dont think it should happen unless the guy can do every single thing that another able-bodied (i think that the term they use) umpire can do. if he can get from A into position at 2B on a base hit to the outfield then props to him, keep the uniform. if he has any trouble getting into position or getting out of the way, i think its time to hang it up.

it may not be the popular opinion, but this is a job that must be done the right way every time, no slack for anyone including the disabled. i think its great that the guy is staying active and wants to be a part of the action, but i think hes getting too close (unless of course he can do the job properly, then i take this back).

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

You actually started a thread to tell us that you know a rule? Isn't that what your BRD is? Somewhere, Brad has to be grimacing at this latest attempt at recovered vanity.

That's why you needed a separate thread to make yourself feel good. 'Attaboy, old feller, you done good...really good. (more of a chuckle than a grin).

Good Lord, anyone with a rule book or search engine could have taken the few hours you needed to pen that tripe. Of course you knew it...

[ozzy6900]

Carl,

What are you saying? Don't you realize that everyone in the ADA and the ACLU will hunt you down like a "dawg"?

Well, they can hunt me down too. Wheelchairs, crutches and canes have no place on the field during play. I am also not too keen on artificial limbs on the baseball field. I am not against the handicapped but I don't want to see a player collide with a coach in a wheelchair!

By the way Windy, we umpires can be on the field with handicapped apparatus (per FED)! Now ain't that a kick in the butt!

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
You actually started a thread to tell us that you know a rule? Isn't that what your BRD is? Somewhere, Brad has to be grimacing at this latest attempt at recovered vanity.

That's why you needed a separate thread to make yourself feel good. 'Attaboy, old feller, you done good...really good. (more of a chuckle than a grin).

Good Lord, anyone with a rule book or search engine could have taken the few hours you needed to pen that tripe. Of course you knew it...

You are clearly the most obnoxious prick on the internet baseball forums.

This question was on the 1996 state test. I have them all for the last 30 years. Before that, we used the NFHS test.
I had nothing to do with writing the state test though that won't be true starting in 2006.

The state key had one answer; I had another.

I asked only that umpires tell me which answer the thought was correct.

I noted you attempted no answer. Are you too big a coward to give us your call if such a situation happened?

Incidentally, the man who wrote test is Dotson Lewis. He lives in Corpus Christi, now that he's retired as executive director of the state officials organization.

Why not give him a call and the "tripe" on his test? Before we hired him out of retirement, he was an officer in the US army. Quite a guy this fellow: black belt in the old style of karate.

[BT_Blue]

Originally posted by BigUmp56



While we're discussing a handicapped or "physically disadvantaged" coach, I'd like to get some opinions on a situation that came up this last summer at the Cooperstown Dreams Park.

During one of the week long tournaments there, an umpire was calling games from a wheelchair. This brought rise to an issue that goes deeper than the sport of baseball in my opinion. The main questions were, can he do his job effectively, and even if he can, is he putting the players at a higher risk of injury.

I can certainly see the downside of allowing this, but I don't see how it could be stopped, or even if it should be stopped for that matter.

Any thought's?

Tim.

Big,
Were you at that week at CDP? If so, what bunk? I was in 32B. I saw the umpire in question work behind the plate and it was something to behold! He was a really good umpire. Good zone, great confidence, etc.

It was a joy to watch him work and by the way, he looked damn good out there too! Doing something most of us would just give up on, he was out there busting his *** and honestly, better dressed and looking more like an umpire than some umpires with all their mobility.

Sadly, I dont remember the gentleman's name but he will always have a special place in my umpiring life.

God bless him and all of his family.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

You are clearly the most obnoxious prick on the internet baseball forums.

This question was on the 1996 state test. I have them all for the last 30 years. Before that, we used the NFHS test.
I had nothing to do with writing the state test though that won't be true starting in 2006.

The state key had one answer; I had another.

I asked only that umpires tell me which answer the thought was correct.

I noted you attempted no answer. Are you too big a coward to give us your call if such a situation happened?

Incidentally, the man who wrote test is Dotson Lewis. He lives in Corpus Christi, now that he's retired as executive director of the state officials organization.

Why not give him a call and the "tripe" on his test? Before we hired him out of retirement, he was an officer in the US army. Quite a guy this fellow: black belt in the old style of karate.

No mirrors in the house, Carl?

What question do you want me to answer? Would I allow a coach in a wheelchair to do his job? Yes, the Fed rule book allows for it. If you are worried about a lawsuit, I wonder why you even take the field.

Are you asking if I make a coach keep both feet in the box? I believe I said that during my pregame, I tell them to stay where they belong unless they want to talk with me. That means to stay in the dugout or the coaching box and not delay the game. Rarely have I had to put my hand up and tell a coach to get back to where he belongs. I thought I was clear.

I loved the Lewis biography. He sounds like an interesting fellow. At your age living vicariously is just sad. I still don't know what he has to do with you not knowing about a simple Fed rule, but I digress. How could I attribute the word 'tripe' to him, when you were the one that wrote that ridiculous response? I didn't even know the man existed until you brought him into the mess and tried to pass the buck.

It's okay, you didn't know about the difference in baseball size for Fed apparently either. See what it is like when people put words in your mouth.

[Edited by WhatWuzThatBlue on Nov 28th, 2005 at 08:46 PM]

[GarthB]

Carl,

I knew you knew. This was a hot topic back in 2001 when the Supreme Court ruled that the PGA could not deny Casey Martin the use of a cart on the course.

It was debated over and over on the public Forums and UT.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

No mirrors in the house, Carl?

What question do you want me to answer? Would I allow a coach in a wheelchair to do his job? Yes, the Fed rule book allows for it. If you are worried about a lawsuit, I wonder why you even take the field.

Are you asking if I make a coach keep both feet in the box? I believe I said that during my pregame, I tell them to stay where they belong unless they want to talk with me. That means to stay in the dugout or the coaching box and not delay the game. Rarely have I had to put my hand up and tell a coach to get back to where he belongs. I thought I was clear.

I loved the Lewis biography. He sounds like an interesting fellow. At your age living vicariously is just sad. I still don't know what he has to do with you not knowing about a simple Fed rule, but I digress. How could I attribute the word 'tripe' to him, when you were the one that wrote that ridiculous response? I didn't even know the man existed until you brought him into the mess and tried to pass the buck.

It's okay, you didn't know about the difference in baseball size for Fed apparently either. See what it is like when people put words in your mouth.

[Edited by WhatWuzThatBlue on Nov 28th, 2005 at 08:46 PM]

Is the correct answer B or C? Rational for your answer would be helpful.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by ozzy6900
Carl,

What are you saying? Don't you realize that everyone in the ADA and the ACLU will hunt you down like a "dawg"?

Well, they can hunt me down too. Wheelchairs, crutches and canes have no place on the field during play. I am also not too keen on artificial limbs on the baseball field. I am not against the handicapped but I don't want to see a player collide with a coach in a wheelchair!

Oz, does that include that seeing-eye dog you've been using?

[BigUmp56]

Originally posted by BT_Blue

Big,
Were you at that week at CDP? If so, what bunk? I was in 32B. I saw the umpire in question work behind the plate and it was something to behold! He was a really good umpire. Good zone, great confidence, etc.

It was a joy to watch him work and by the way, he looked damn good out there too! Doing something most of us would just give up on, he was out there busting his *** and honestly, better dressed and looking more like an umpire than some umpires with all their mobility.

Sadly, I dont remember the gentleman's name but he will always have a special place in my umpiring life.

God bless him and all of his family.

No, BT I wasn't there. The subject came up earlier this year on two other forums. This thread just reminded me of it.

It's nice to hear the skinny straight from the horses mouth though. I'm glad to hear you felt he was a competent official in spite of his limitations.

Tim.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by BigUmp56

No, BT I wasn't there. The subject came up earlier this year on two other forums. This thread just reminded me of it.

It's nice to hear the skinny straight from the horses mouth though. I'm glad to hear you felt he was a competent official in spite of his limitations.

Tim.

The batter pops up foul directly toward the screen. F2 turns his back to the plate and goes for the ball, which is drifting to his left, just inches from the screen. I'd be interested in seeing U1 cover that play from a wheelchair.

Of course, in a two- or three-man crew he could never call plays at third except via long distance. In a 4-man crew if the third-base umpire goes out, do the umpires rotate counter-clockwise? If so, that means U2 will have plays at first and second.

An umpire with a prosthesis can do the job. I know: I've worked with one.

The FED, as CYA, allow umpires using "mobility devices" to work. The mind boggles!

I'm sorry, but a guy in a wheelchair just can't do what an umpire must do.

We all know that. Judges who never umpired may not.

Thank goodness we have only a few self-centered individuals who think their gratification is more important than the players or the integrity of the game.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

B or C... what? Are you referring to a nine year old test from Texas and want to know what I would answer? Does anyone else have that test in front of them, or just the King of Charades?

Give me the question and I will be happy to comply. You probably won't like the answer or will make up some crap about how you argued that same point but we're both wrong. At least I have the stones to answer your questions.

I still don't believe you had a clue about what led to this discussion. You've provided another non sequitor to bail your behind out of the drowning pool. We are now discussing whether or not an umpire should be allowed to call the game from a wheel chair? This had nothing to do with whether or not a coach could be in the box in a wheel chair.

You really can't be this daft, but you are making it appear so.

[SanDiegoSteve]

WhatWuzThatBlue,

Yes, he is asking "B" or "C" about the 1996 Texas exam question that everyone else has been answering. It is located on the Obstruction or Interference thread. The only post you made on that thread was to actually agree with Carl about a point he had made. You never really answered the question as to what your opinion was.

I'm pretty sure you know what Carl meant by the question. So instead of a big, long tirade on how daft you believe him to be, why not just answer the question in the other thread and be done with it?