I don't believe my league.....

[WindyCityBlue]

I apologize if I confused any of you, but I was strictly speaking about College baseball. I was replying directly to Jumpmaster's query and not reading more into it.

Peter,
I will be more eloquent and diplomatic than what you've recently seen.
As I'm sure you know, I live in the suburbs of Chicago. I have a wealth of knowldge about the game, from LL to the few D1's we have nearby. I have to travel a lot for good baseball! Even though it was not part of Jumpmaster's question, High school baseball in our area is regulated by a handful of assignors. Most of the schools are divided into conferences and those are usually assigned by those men. Most assignors are very accountable to the coachs, AD's and Boards of Control. The individual umpire here usually does not get his games through a coach (during regular season). Post season assignments are handled directly through the IHSA office. That said, if the umpire excels or stinks up the place, the assignor hears about it.

Local colleges, mostly JUCO, do have more of a say in who will or won't work their games. The UMPS assignors issue evaluation cards and ask for constant feedback. A few guys have been removed because a coach has an issue that could not be resolved. Lest anyone be fooled, the college coaches in Chicago have tremendous influence over their officials. A few programs schedule tournaments and request certain officials. Others are adamant about having certain guys NOT work their games. However, we reserve the right to ignore the request. (You can't have six teams all requesting the same guy for every game.)

My original post addressed a way to better yourself. Recognizing that coachs are not "customers" but V.I.P's is part of my philosophy. Treat them with the same respect they extend. There is a reason why some of us move up and do it it without kissing a**.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I apologize if I confused any of you, but I was strictly speaking about College baseball. I was replying directly to Jumpmaster's query and not reading more into it.

Peter,
I will be more eloquent and diplomatic than what you've recently seen.
As I'm sure you know, I live in the suburbs of Chicago. I have a wealth of knowldge about the game, from LL to the few D1's we have nearby. I have to travel a lot for good baseball! Even though it was not part of Jumpmaster's question, High school baseball in our area is regulated by a handful of assignors. Most of the schools are divided into conferences and those are usually assigned by those men. Most assignors are very accountable to the coachs, AD's and Boards of Control. The individual umpire here usually does not get his games through a coach (during regular season). Post season assignments are handled directly through the IHSA office. That said, if the umpire excels or stinks up the place, the assignor hears about it.

Local colleges, mostly JUCO, do have more of a say in who will or won't work their games. The UMPS assignors issue evaluation cards and ask for constant feedback. A few guys have been removed because a coach has an issue that could not be resolved. Lest anyone be fooled, the college coaches in Chicago have tremendous influence over their officials. A few programs schedule tournaments and request certain officials. Others are adamant about having certain guys NOT work their games. However, we reserve the right to ignore the request. (You can't have six teams all requesting the same guy for every game.)

My original post addressed a way to better yourself. Recognizing that coachs are not "customers" but V.I.P's is part of my philosophy. Treat them with the same respect they extend. There is a reason why some of us move up and do it it without kissing a**.

WCB;

We agree 100%. The DC area is exactly like Chicago. Coaches have a lot of influence but assignors have the ultimate say. Assignor's are influenced by coaches and ADs. My particular assignor is heavily influenced by ADs.

Why am I not surprised that you know what's going on and that other umpire from Chicago is clueless.

Peter

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by His High Holiness


WCB;

We agree 100%. The DC area is exactly like Chicago. Coaches have a lot of influence but assignors have the ultimate say. Assignor's are influenced by coaches and ADs. My particular assignor is heavily influenced by ADs.

Why am I not surprised that you know what's going on and that other umpire from Chicago is clueless.

Peter

He said the exact same thing I said. He just worded it a little differently, but we said the exact same thing. And I work 3 sports, not just one. I think I am very familiar with how I get games and what gets guys banned or recommended. Assignors only listen to coaches to a point. They do not allow coaches (especially the strong ones) to just dictate who goes where, especally if the beef is not valid. And unless there is some tape or major rule violation, they are just not scratching umpires. And the assignor of one of my association has made it clear that he will send an umpire right back to the same place where their was a problem if he sees fit.

You are so right Peter, I have just lived here for a number of years and work multiple sports, work with multiple assignors in all those sports, but I have no idea how the assigning works or how officials are scratched. I will make sure to give out your email to area umpires for advice on how to deal with the coaches and assignors that live here. Remember, you know.

Peace

[GarthB]

Originally posted by His High Holiness

It is generally a waste of time to argue with Rut so I am replying for the rest of you. The first problem in replying to Rut is interpreting his mangled grammar. Tell me, what does this sentence mean:

Rut wrote "And if we can not interfere in the game." He wrote it as a complete sentence. It makes no sense at all. What's new?

Unfortunately, we must take into account the customer's wishes or he will go somewhere else. My association has driven the other associations in our area out of business. In spite of the fact that we charge MORE than anyone else, the customer chooses us because we take care of the customer. It does you no good to be the best umpire in the world if no one will hire you.

It is a truism of business everywhere. The man who pays the bills makes the rules. Unless you want to live in a communist country, you will have to get use to it. Only sports officials are arrogant enough to believe that marketplace rules don't apply to them. Recognizing this fact, we have put our competition out of business and made more money for ourselves in the process.

Thank God our competition thinks like Rut.

Peter

Peter:

I think this is the perfect subject for you and Mr. Rutledge to write "point/counterpoint" articles for officiating.com. I would almost be willing to pay to read them.

It would certainly be more entertaining than the standard fare appearing there today.

[wobster]

Apparently, even though I handled it wrong, my ejection had the desired effect and then some. I worked another game tonight for the team who I had a problem with, and they were VERY polite. I didn't have more than 1 or 2 comments the whole game from that side of the fence. Also, the fan I tossed and his buddy came up to me before the game and apologized and said it would never happen again, and that he was out of line.

The Manager for that team also told me that I should have thrown his son out (the 15 year old first base coach) because the manager has been trying to instill a healthy respect for umpires into him. Oh well.

I handled this situation wrong, but I did learn something (a lot, actually) and I got the desired result. All's well that ends well.

[wobster]

Originally posted by GarthB

Peter:

I think this is the perfect subject for you and Mr. Rutledge to write "point/counterpoint" articles for officiating.com. I would almost be willing to pay to read them.

It would certainly be more entertaining than the standard fare appearing there today.

Actually, the article I would like to see is how and when to eject a player, fan coach(where's the line), and when to ignore the chirping.

A lot of younger umpires like myself could benefit a lot from that.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by JRutledge

He [WCB] said the exact same thing I said. He just worded it a little differently, but we said the exact same thing.
Peace

Rut;

"A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY"??????????????????????

How about a lot differently? You were not even close. Furthermore, WCB used standard English. You should try it sometime. Maybe then, readers would understand you.

Peter

[WindyCityBlue]

Like Garth, I would pay to see that point/counterpoint. If only to use it as a primer for "English as a Second Language" classes.

Wobster may have a point, but it would be very difficult to instruct officials on when to eject contestants - note: not fans. Each of us has a trigger point and depending on the level of play and how bad you may have kicked the call, you will have to adjust. It seems apparent that many of our LL brethren have zero tolerance policies. If your league will back you, this is a good administrative tool. However, at High School Playoff level and above, you have to expect arguments and confrontations. How they AND YOU, behave will have a tremendous bearing on the result. I've seen umpires cause ejections and I've learned a lot from umpires that allowed let things get too out of hand. Find your comfort level.

Since I'm married and have children, I learned a long time ago that I may be right, but I may not be able to convince those around me. Pick your battles and remember that the video camera is always watching.

[Edited by WindyCityBlue on Jun 24th, 2004 at 09:30 AM]

[JRutledge]

Peter,

Why don't you use standard logic?

The word "customer" is a business term. It has nothing to do with our job as umpires or officials. You are the only fool I have ever heard try to tell anyone to treat coaches that way(D1, State Final Officials, Assignors, Clinicians, Speakers). We are not on the field to serve the coaches. We are there to serve the game. So if we treat the coaches or school (who do not assign us btw) like customers, then we have to go out of our way to make them happy. That makes absolutely no sense. Maybe if your bald headed, old *** would stop trying to be a kiss a$$, you might just understand that.

I do not come here to make sure every word is in place. Actually most of the time I do not fully read what I post when I send it. Why, because I really do not care. This is a discussion board, not a academic review. Because if it was, there would be many here that would never be able to post here. Get some hair, then I will worry about what you and everyone understands. Mark a$$!!! (old slang)

Peace

[tornado]

Rut,

How can you respond the way you do and sign off with "Peace"??

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by tornado
Rut,

How can you respond the way you do and sign off with "Peace"??

For the 100th time, "Peace" is short for "Peace out!!" This is not the 60s anymore. It is not about "Love not War," slogans.

And if you do not like the way I respond, DO NOT READ MY POSTS AT ALL!!!!! Because if you do or if you do not respond, we will still all be in the same exact place we were before this day ever started.

Peace

[wobster]

such hostility......

just kidding

[WindyCityBlue]

The "Peace" close doesn't bother me.

The fact that you believe that you and I said the same thing in our posts amazes all of us. No, we did not just say it differently. We are diametrically opposed in our philosophies. Maybe we can convince Peter that the word customer is a stretch, but his intent is obvious. The official is supplying a service to an end user. In many parts of the country, the end user IS the coach. Many small schools hire their officials directly. This responsibility is handled by an AD or the coach. They can and do care about what they are paying for. Some may not have much of a choice due to a limited official supply. But, they will object to poor service. Yes, our responsibility is ultimately to honor the game - not the players, as you alluded to in another post.

In Chaicago and many metropolitan areas, the assisgnor take a lot of heat for supplying bad officials. As the adage goes, sh*t rolls down hill. The umpire will hear about it and may be removed. While some assignors may support and official and put him back on a contest when the coach has asked otherwise, he won't keep doing that if the coach keeps complaining. Don't be a fool. There are simply too many options and assignors are replaced regularly or the association might lose the league/school/conference.

You may not answer directly to the coach - from your responses here, it seems obvious that you don't care about image. However, if an umpire p*sses off the wrong coach, I guarantee that he will hear about it. When the coach escalates the issue past an assignor to a Board of Directors or tells his AD to get involved, heads will roll.

Officials are considered independent contractors in many states. They provide a service for a fee. If you take the base of this description, the customer pays for a product. They demand value for their money and complain like any other consumer when it falls short.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
The "Peace" close doesn't bother me.

The fact that you believe that you and I said the same thing in our posts amazes all of us. No, we did not just say it differently. We are diametrically opposed in our philosophies. Maybe we can convince Peter that the word customer is a stretch, but his intent is obvious. The official is supplying a service to an end user. In many parts of the country, the end user IS the coach. Many small schools hire their officials directly. This responsibility is handled by an AD or the coach. They can and do care about what they are paying for. Some may not have much of a choice due to a limited official supply. But, they will object to poor service. Yes, our responsibility is ultimately to honor the game - not the players, as you alluded to in another post.

In Chicago and many metropolitan areas, the assignor take a lot of heat for supplying bad officials. As the adage goes, sh*t rolls down hill. The umpire will hear about it and may be removed. While some assignors may support the official and put him back on a contest when the coach has asked otherwise, he won't keep doing that if the coach keeps complaining. Don't be a fool. There are simply too many options and assignors are replaced regularly or the association might lose the league/school/conference.

You may not answer directly to the coach - from your responses here, it seems obvious that you don't care about image. However, if an umpire p*sses off the wrong coach, I guarantee that he will hear about it. When the coach escalates the issue past an assignor to a Board of Directors or tells his AD to get involved, heads will roll.

Officials are considered independent contractors in many states. They provide a service for a fee. If you take the base of this description, the customer pays for a product. They demand value for their money and complain like any other consumer when it falls short.

WCB;

You said exactly what I was trying to convey. Now let's watch that other umpire from Chicago butcher it.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the point/counterpoint idea with Rut will fly with the management of this site. The foreign language version of officiating.com is not yet ready for launch.

Peter

[tornado]

"And if you do not like the way I respond, DO NOT READ MY POSTS AT ALL!!!!! Because if you do or if you do not respond, we will still all be in the same exact place we were before this day ever started.

Peace [/B][/QUOTE]

I never said I liked or disliked your posts. I try to learn from everyone here. Given your mutual animosity, I find "Peace" at the end of a response to Peter to be odd...