Flex bats NFHS rules

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

How do you penalize for an illegal substitute an inning after the fact? At the time the infraction was brought to the umpires attention all you have is BOO.

An illegal substitute can discovered by either team or an umpire at any time in the game and be restricted to the dugout. The only thing that discovering before a pitch has been thrown does is nullify the play.

[RKBUmp]

And what proof do you have anything has been discovered other than the current BOO? An inning after the fact you have a coach who has brought you their score book indicating the flex had batted the previous inning. What do you do if the other teams score book doesn't show the flex batting?

[shipwreck]

What do we do in any case where there is a discrepancy in the score book? If there is an official score book, we use that, otherwise the home book is the official book. Should be fairly simple to find out if someone is an illegal sub. Dave

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

And what proof do you have anything has been discovered other than the current BOO? An inning after the fact you have a coach who has brought you their score book indicating the flex had batted the previous inning. What do you do if the other teams score book doesn't show the flex batting?

I think it is assumed that when one posts a question, the facts of the question are true. The OP of a thread shouldn't have to prove to others that his facts are correct. Given the facts laid out by the OP, we should answer the questions posted.

Per both NFHS and ASA, any time the Flex bats without going into the DP slot, it's an illegal sub, and not BOO. Penalize accordingly.

In this case, Flex illegally batted for B1. Then we have the additional issue of B1 batting out of turn when B2 was due up. Again, penalize accordingly.

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I think it is assumed that when one posts a question, the facts of the question are true. The OP of a thread shouldn't have to prove to others that his facts are correct. Given the facts laid out by the OP, we should answer the questions posted.

Per both NFHS and ASA, any time the Flex bats without going into the DP slot, it's an illegal sub, and not BOO. Penalize accordingly.

In this case, Flex illegally batted for B1. Then we have the additional issue of B1 batting out of turn when B2 was due up. Again, penalize accordingly.

MD, I like your explanation. So when NFHS says that illegal substitution supersedes BOO, it is talking about the illegal sub player, not the batter who follows the illegal sub. So as you say, the batter (B1) who follows the illegal sub would be out of order. So if appealed correctly, B2 would be declared out and B3 would be up? Dave

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I think it is assumed that when one posts a question, the facts of the question are true. The OP of a thread shouldn't have to prove to others that his facts are correct. Given the facts laid out by the OP, we should answer the questions posted.

I interpreted this differently. Not that the OP has to prove to the message board the accuracy of the sitch, rather, in real time during the game, how do you really know/prove that there was an illegal substitute a half-inning or more later....

Furthermore, you can only go for the penalty of an illegal sub while she is illegally in the game. This means you have to catch it while she is on offense for a player other than the DP.

[shipwreck]

If she batted or played defense she is currently in the game, regardless if she is sitting in the dugout, in the batters box, on base, or in the field. The flex was in the game. Dave

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Furthermore, you can only go for the penalty of an illegal sub while she is illegally in the game. This means you have to catch it while she is on offense for a player other than the DP.

For the penalty part where you nullify the play, yes.

The restriction part - no.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

An illegal substitute can discovered by either team or an umpire at any time in the game and be restricted to the dugout. The only thing that discovering before a pitch has been thrown does is nullify the play.

And where do you get this conclusion from? The copy of the rulebook I have at work is 2011, but has 3-4-2 changed? Illegal substitutes may be discovered only while illegally in the game.

[shipwreck]

It says an illegal offensive player may be discovered after she scores. This can mean while sitting in the dugout later in the game, correct? Nothing is said about a certain time frame that this is allowed. Dave

[Crabby_Bob]

NFHS 3-4-2 says the infraction must be discovered before the next pitch, or, on a game ending play, before the infielders and/or umpires have left the diamond.

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

NFHS 3-4-2 says the infraction must be discovered before the next pitch, or, on a game ending play, before the infielders and/or umpires have left the diamond.

Read 3-4-2c It says AFTER a pitch she is still an illegal sub, just that the play stands. So the infraction does not have to be detected before the next pitch. Dave

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

NFHS 3-4-2 says the infraction must be discovered before the next pitch, or, on a game ending play, before the infielders and/or umpires have left the diamond.

Only if the coach is trying to nullify the play made by the illegal sub. Even if detected later, an illegal sub is an illegal sub is an illegal sub. (Sometimes harder to PROVE later though!)

[shipwreck]

MD, the more I read the rule the more I believe you can't have a BOO also. Rule book says penalty Art. 2a The proper batter is considered to have lost her turn at bat. Maybe I am reading something wrong. Dave

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

MD, the more I read the rule the more I believe you can't have a BOO also. Rule book says penalty Art. 2a The proper batter is considered to have lost her turn at bat. Maybe I am reading something wrong. Dave

The proper batter (B1) IS considered to have lost her turn at bat when Flex illegally subbed for her and was not caught.

Then, in the 4th inning, when B2 is up... B1 comes to the plate and bats out of order.