flex bats

[cloverdale]

jv working alone...3rd out and coach comes to me and says the flex player just batted...I thought that the flex could bat for the dp but then you would lose the flex...so this is how i handled it...we let the books show that the lead off was out and started the next inning with the 2 batter on lead off...right or wrong it got the batting order straighened out...was this not only batting out of order but also an illegal subsitution...should I have sent the batter and coach to the dugout...what else am i missing on this play...how should it have been handled...now for a twist...if they would have caught this before the out what else would have changed?

[Az.Ump]

coverdale,

I’m not sure if you are saying that the Flex batted for the DP but was unreported or the Flex batted in the 10th position providing the DP was not batting in the first spot. If the Flex batted for the DP it would be an unreported substitution. Rule 3-6-7. See case book 3.3.6 situation C on page 23. If the Flex batted for someone other than the DP, she is an illegal substitute. Rule 3-4-1 and 3-4-2. See case book 3.3.6 situation F page 24.

Paul

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by cloverdale

jv working alone...3rd out and coach comes to me and says the flex player just batted...I thought that the flex could bat for the dp but then you would lose the flex

No. The FLEX can bat for the DP, but it is the DP who has been substituted for, not the FLEX. The FLEX is still in the game, still, as far as your post indicates, doing her job, which would be playing on defense. So...she is still in the game.

Originally Posted by cloverdale

..so this is how i handled it...we let the books show that the lead off was out and started the next inning with the 2 batter on lead off...right or wrong it got the batting order straighened out...was this not only batting out of order but also an illegal subsitution

Not sure how you are coming up with this being an illegal substitution. Your post doesn't indicate anything of that nature.

Originally Posted by cloverdale

.....should I have sent the batter and coach to the dugout...what else am i missing on this play...how should it have been handled...now for a twist...if they would have caught this before the out what else would have changed?

Speaking NFHS, IF this was an illegal sub, then you would restrict the player to the dugout. Depending on what else happened, you could have also possibly gotten an out. If you were to clarify your post with details, then perhaps one of us could provide you with more info.

[JefferMC]

This has happened to me as well...

The Flex sees her name on the line up in the tenth position and goes out to bat. If the coach isn't paying attention, she takes her turn at bat. Then the number 1 batter comes up and takes her turn. Granted, they should understand the position better than that, but, stuff happens.

So, I am curious about what be done in these situations.

1) OP's situation that the Flex makes the third out ending the inning and it is brought up by the defense? Is the Flex an Illegal batter, an improper sub, or what? Who leads off the next inning?

2) I guess it would be the same thing if Flex made a first or second out, but the situation was noticed before #1 takes a pitch.

3) Flex hits safely, and is brought up before #1 takes a pitch.

3) The game continues because #1 and #2 bat in turn and only then does someone bring up the issue? (When I saw this happen, the score keeper had to put the flex's batting results on the 10th line)

4) The error is caught by the defense while Flex is still in the batters box?

[TwoBits]

From NFHS casebook:

3.3.6 Situation F: The FLEX-Smith enters the game to bat for F1, listed ninth and has a 1-1 count at discovery. RULING: Illegal substitution. Since the FLEX-Smith is at bat, she is declared out and disqualified. She must be replaced by a legal substitute. The FLEX-Smith can only bat in the DP position.

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

From NFHS casebook:

3.3.6 Situation F: The FLEX-Smith enters the game to bat for F1, listed ninth and has a 1-1 count at discovery. RULING: Illegal substitution. Since the FLEX-Smith is at bat, she is declared out and disqualified. She must be replaced by a legal substitute. The FLEX-Smith can only bat in the DP position.

That answers #4. How about the other situations?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

This has happened to me as well...

The Flex sees her name on the line up in the tenth position and goes out to bat. If the coach isn't paying attention, she takes her turn at bat. Then the number 1 batter comes up and takes her turn. Granted, they should understand the position better than that, but, stuff happens.

So, I am curious about what be done in these situations.

1) OP's situation that the Flex makes the third out ending the inning and it is brought up by the defense? Is the Flex an Illegal batter, an improper sub, or what? Who leads off the next inning?

2) I guess it would be the same thing if Flex made a first or second out, but the situation was noticed before #1 takes a pitch.

3) Flex hits safely, and is brought up before #1 takes a pitch.

3) The game continues because #1 and #2 bat in turn and only then does someone bring up the issue? (When I saw this happen, the score keeper had to put the flex's batting results on the 10th line)

4) The error is caught by the defense while Flex is still in the batters box?

Here's my evaluation. Remembering this set of questions did not specify NFHS, NCAA, or ASA. In all cases, the FLEX is an illegal sub/batter/player, UNLESS #1 happens to be the DP. In that case, it is an unreported substitution, and the appropriate unreported sub rule applies, only.

1) The FLEX is an illegal sub who batted in #1's position. FLEX is disqualified/restricted, and either a sub for #1 or a re-entry for #1 is required. Also, a sub for FLEX, or else the DP takes that place (down to 9). #1's batting position was used, so #2 leads off next inning.

2) Same as 1). Keep all other outs, if any, also made on play.

3) FLEX is still an illegal sub who batted in #1's position. FLEX is disqualified/restricted, and either a sub for FLEX, or else the DP takes that place (down to 9). #1 has an unreported re-entry, and batted out of order (in #2's position). In NFHS, warning; in ASA & NCAA, #1 is also disqualified. #2 is legitimately batting after #1, so, too late to consider BOO.

4) Answered by NFHS casebook; FLEX is an illegal sub, out and disqualified. NCAA the same, but verbiage is illegal player and ejected. In ASA, an illegal player is disqualified, but not out.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

1) OP's situation that the Flex makes the third out ending the inning and it is brought up by the defense? Is the Flex an Illegal batter, an improper sub, or what? Who leads off the next inning?

Illegal batter. Restricted to dugout. Legal sub must take her place. The next batter would be would be number 2 in the batting order, assuming that FLEX batted in number 1's place.

Originally Posted by JefferMC

2) I guess it would be the same thing if Flex made a first or second out, but the situation was noticed before #1 takes a pitch.

True. Though of course, assuming again that the FLEX batted when number 1 should have batted, then the correct batter here would be number 2 in the lineup. See 3:4:2:a-d:Penalty.

Originally Posted by JefferMC

3) Flex hits safely, and is brought up before #1 takes a pitch.

FLEX is out, restricted to bench. #2 is the batter.

Originally Posted by JefferMC

3) The game continues because #1 and #2 bat in turn and only then does someone bring up the issue? (When I saw this happen, the score keeper had to put the flex's batting results on the 10th line).

Nullify the last illegal act.

Originally Posted by JefferMC

4) The error is caught by the defense while Flex is still in the batters box?

FLEX is restricted to the dugout and must be replaced by a legal substitute.

This is per NFHS.

[Skahtboi]

After reading Steve's take, his version of the second number three question is probably the best result.