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Old Sun May 16, 2010, 03:44pm
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DP/Flex NFHS Rules

DP/Flex NFHS Rules

DP(#23) gets safely to 1st, flex (#14) runs, this is a substitution for the DP, but is this a substitution for the flex?

Later the DP(#23) re-enters and again gets to first, again the Flex (#14) runs. The next time the position is up to bat a new DP (#8) is entered and again she gets safely to first. The coach wants to run the flex (#14), but I ruled that she was no longer available since she has entered and left the game twice.

The coach clearly understood that the DP(#23) was done the second time the Flex ran, but insisted that the flex (#14) could now run for the new DP (#8). My position was the flex (#14) was now also done anew flex can run for the DP.

Bugg
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Old Sun May 16, 2010, 04:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuggBob View Post
DP/Flex NFHS Rules

DP(#23) gets safely to 1st, flex (#14) runs, this is a substitution for the DP, but is this a substitution for the flex?
Sorry, but that question makes no sense.
Quote:
Later the DP(#23) re-enters and again gets to first, again the Flex (#14) runs. The next time the position is up to bat a new DP (#8) is entered and again she gets safely to first. The coach wants to run the flex (#14), but I ruled that she was no longer available since she has entered and left the game twice.
You have yet to indicate any time that the Flex has left the game.

Quote:
The coach clearly understood that the DP(#23) was done the second time the Flex ran, but insisted that the flex (#14) could now run for the new DP (#8). My position was the flex (#14) was now also done anew flex can run for the DP.

Bugg
Seems the coach was correct.
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Old Sun May 16, 2010, 07:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuggBob View Post
DP/Flex NFHS Rules

DP(#23) gets safely to 1st, flex (#14) runs, this is a substitution for the DP, but is this a substitution for the flex?
No it is not. The Flex player has not left the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuggBob View Post
DP/Flex NFHS Rules

Later the DP(#23) re-enters and again gets to first, again the Flex (#14) runs. The next time the position is up to bat a new DP (#8) is entered and again she gets safely to first. The coach wants to run the flex (#14), but I ruled that she was no longer available since she has entered and left the game twice.
When the flex ran for the DP the second time. The player that started in the DP slot is done for the game. With a new DP you are good to go and back to 10 players in the lineup. The flex can do this an unlimited number of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuggBob View Post
DP/Flex NFHS Rules

The coach clearly understood that the DP(#23) was done the second time the Flex ran, but insisted that the flex (#14) could now run for the new DP (#8). My position was the flex (#14) was now also done anew flex can run for the DP.

Bugg
Irish is correct! The coach was correct
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Old Sun May 16, 2010, 09:57pm
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Just to add another way of looking at what has already been correctly stated.

The FLEX has been substituted for, and isn't currently in the game, when the FLEX isn't playing defense. The DP has been substituted for, and isn't currently in the game, when the DP isn't playing on offense (noth hitting and running).

If you apply those generalizations to your scenario, and never stated the FLEX wasn't playing on defense, then the FLEX never left the game.
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Old Mon May 17, 2010, 07:20am
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Here's another way to think about this:

The FLEX's job is to play defense. The DP's job is to play offense. It doesn't mean they cannot perform other "duties as assigned," but that's what they're in the lineup for.

If, at any time, the FLEX is not doing her job (playing defense) or the DP is not doing her job (playing offense), then they have been substituted for and they have left the game and have a re-entry remaining.
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Old Mon May 17, 2010, 10:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
The FLEX has been substituted for, and isn't currently in the game, when the FLEX isn't playing defense.

The DP has been substituted for, and isn't currently in the game, when the DP isn't playing on offense (not hitting or running).
Either is still in the game when performing the other role.

And yet, this seems to be the most frequently misunderstood aspect of the rule. That comes from trying to treat it as a stand alone rule, ignoring basic lineup and substitution concepts; plus not studying the rule thoroughly.
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Old Mon May 17, 2010, 10:37am
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The OP's scenario nearly dupicates NFHS casebook play 3.3.6 Situation E:

Team A is using 10 players in its lineup with DP-L. Jones batting third. FLEX B. Smith is playing right field and is a very fast runner. In the first, third, and sixth innings, DP-L. Jones gets on base and, in each case, the FLEX-B. Smith is put in to run. Legal?
Ruling: It is legal for the defensive position player (FLEX) to do this since she never left the game. However, it would be illegal for the starting DP-L. Jones to return to bat in the sixth inning. This is a violation of the re-entry rule.
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Old Mon May 17, 2010, 12:49pm
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The correct rule and interpretation has been posted. I won't hammer that any longer.

I prefer to think of this scenario (or the DP playing defense for the FLEX) as a "half" substitution. The substitution only affects half of the players involved. Since one of the players never leaves the game, s/he is not affected by the change. The other player is leaving the game and is subject to the substitution/re-entry rules.
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Old Mon May 17, 2010, 01:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Either is still in the game when performing the other role.

And yet, this seems to be the most frequently misunderstood aspect of the rule. That comes from trying to treat it as a stand alone rule, ignoring basic lineup and substitution concepts; plus not studying the rule thoroughly.
Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying, that is impossible. The FLEX can never perform the DP role and NOT be on defense; the DP can never perform the FLEX role and not be on offense.

If you are attempting to say that they can perform BOTH roles, and are still (and continuously) in the game, I agree; but they can never perform only the OTHER role.
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Old Mon May 17, 2010, 09:40pm
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DF / Flex Reference

here's a nice reference piece ... free download for the DP / FLEX:

Officiating Resources
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Old Tue May 18, 2010, 08:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying, that is impossible. The FLEX can never perform the DP role and NOT be on defense; the DP can never perform the FLEX role and not be on offense.

If you are attempting to say that they can perform BOTH roles, and are still (and continuously) in the game, I agree; but they can never perform only the OTHER role.
The latter, should have been more specific. Thanks for restating.
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