A simple yes or no......

[HugoTafurst]

These responses from a partner left me scratching my head after a "showcase" game this weekend:

Me (to partner in "C"), "Tom, did she go"?
Partner, "I can't be sure from here, but I don't think so".


Later that same game:
Me (to partner in "A"), "Tom, did she go"?
Partner, "not far enough"

I suspect that the fact that it was a showcase game kept my partner (and possibly me) from getting eaten up.

No big deal, but had to share..................

[chapmaja]

Reminds me of a story I heard from a HS game.

One of our trainers is working the plate and the other umpire (who will be called Bob) is on the bases. Runners on first and third, so the base umpire is in the C position.

Pitch comes in and there is a snap throw from the catcher to first. All the base umpire can see is A&E. What does he call? Safe? Out? Nope, his response was to point to the plate umpire and yell "bad angle!" The plate umpire said he was so in shock, he went completely blank on what he saw and the only thing he could do was single safe. He said to this day he has no idea if she was safe or out at first, but since he could not see her out (or remember what he saw), he had to call her safe.

And no, I was not umpiring, so I am not Bob. This story predates my umpiring softball regularly.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

no idea if she was safe or out at first, but since he could not see her out (or remember what he saw), he had to call her safe.

yep!

[tcannizzo]

R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B, B3 hits ground ball to F6.
R1 passes right in front of F6 who fields the ball cleanly. No call by BU.
R1 then made a herky-jerky step and then started slowing down (presumably the ball may have nicked her foot thinking she was going to be called out.)

After play BU wanted to ask me if he should call the runner out "because she called herself out".

I asked simply did you see the ball hit her foot? Yes or No.

I know that I did not see the ball hit her foot and neither did BU.
No call.

[Rich]

I love these stories.

I have one of my own.

I'm coaching my daughter's softball team this summer. 8U. I'd give anything for girls that could catch, pitch, hit, etc. but we're having fun and we're doing OK. We're playing a lot of 10U teams and actually won a 10U tournament a few weeks ago.

We're at a tournament this past weekend and end up the 3 seed out of 12 teams. We had a game against the 6 seed on Sunday to advance to the semifinal.

One umpire with a HS player on the bases. Hey, he was actually dressed in a uniform, which isn't a usual thing for us. At this age level, there are so many modified rules I have a hard time keeping them straight, so it's no big surprise that they are different from game to game and umpire to umpire.

First inning of the game, there was a throw that got through at second base. My runner came to third and I sent her home. The plate umpire yelled at me and the runner, "ONE BASE ON AN OVERTHROW!" I was a bit stunned, but figured that was one of the day's modifications, so I said, "No problem. If I run a girl too far, just let me know and we'll put her back."

"IF YOU KNOW THE RULE, WHY WOULD YOU RUN HER?" Top of his lungs.

Wow.

Next inning, I had a legitimate question about a rule modification. I asked for time, was granted it, and walked calmly to the plate umpire to ask the question. Before I could get a sentence out, he yelled at me, "SHUT UP AND GET BACK IN THE DUGOUT."

Stunned, I went back towards the dugout and the umpire followed me. I turned towards him and he then said, "ONE MORE WORD OUT OF YOU AND YOU'RE GONE."

I was so stunned that I think I said, "But..." and just like that, he ejected me.

I walked out without saying a word and ended up on a picnic bench in left field. After I left, one of my parents said something and he turned and yelled through the fence, "SHUT UP OR YOU'RE GONNA LEAVE."

The tournament director was sympathetic and came and talked to me and said I could return to the tourney if my team won. We didn't. My kid was an absolute basket case, but she pitched the next inning really well.

So there it is. My first career ejection on the other side. I still don't know what hit me, other than the worst umpire I've ever seen.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Rich

I love these stories.

I have one of my own.

I'm coaching my daughter's softball team this summer. 8U. I'd give anything for girls that could catch, pitch, hit, etc. but we're having fun and we're doing OK. We're playing a lot of 10U teams and actually won a 10U tournament a few weeks ago.

We're at a tournament this past weekend and end up the 3 seed out of 12 teams. We had a game against the 6 seed on Sunday to advance to the semifinal.

One umpire with a HS player on the bases. Hey, he was actually dressed in a uniform, which isn't a usual thing for us. At this age level, there are so many modified rules I have a hard time keeping them straight, so it's no big surprise that they are different from game to game and umpire to umpire.

First inning of the game, there was a throw that got through at second base. My runner came to third and I sent her home. The plate umpire yelled at me and the runner, "ONE BASE ON AN OVERTHROW!" I was a bit stunned, but figured that was one of the day's modifications, so I said, "No problem. If I run a girl too far, just let me know and we'll put her back."

"IF YOU KNOW THE RULE, WHY WOULD YOU RUN HER?" Top of his lungs.

Wow.

Next inning, I had a legitimate question about a rule modification. I asked for time, was granted it, and walked calmly to the plate umpire to ask the question. Before I could get a sentence out, he yelled at me, "SHUT UP AND GET BACK IN THE DUGOUT."

Stunned, I went back towards the dugout and the umpire followed me. I turned towards him and he then said, "ONE MORE WORD OUT OF YOU AND YOU'RE GONE."

I was so stunned that I think I said, "But..." and just like that, he ejected me.

I walked out without saying a word and ended up on a picnic bench in left field. After I left, one of my parents said something and he turned and yelled through the fence, "SHUT UP OR YOU'RE GONNA LEAVE."

The tournament director was sympathetic and came and talked to me and said I could return to the tourney if my team won. We didn't. My kid was an absolute basket case, but she pitched the next inning really well.

So there it is. My first career ejection on the other side. I still don't know what hit me, other than the worst umpire I've ever seen.

for UIC types only:
If you observed this, or had a verifiable report, how would you handle this with the umpire in question?

[Rich]

I just took a job as a high school commissioner here. That means I hire all varsity officials for 21 schools for all sports, softball included.

On Saturday, I watched a father/son team deal with the biggest jerk coach I ever saw - and this was also at the 8U level. He finally got ejected and then pulled his team from the field and forfeited.

The tournament allowed the team to play the next day, but the coach wasn't there.

After our game, during which they were absolutely great, I hired those two officials. The base umpire is the only 8U guy I've seen all summer who actually pivoted in and RAN from position to position. I was impressed. They maintained their cool and control when the coach lost his marbles. They were friendly and approachable. No clue if they have the talent to work HS varsity games, but they have all the people skills I could ever want.

On Sunday after my ejection, the first thing I did was make sure that the umpire on the plate is NOT on the conference staff. Figured he wasn't, but wanted to make sure. If he was, he wouldn't be after that display.

Our tournament director (we run two tournaments) has removed umpires (part of the deal with the assignor) for various reasons. Not often. Once this season, when he allowed a 14U travel team to play with 4 outfielders and then wouldn't listen to the other coach's complaints about it.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

The plate umpire said he was so in shock, he went completely blank on what he saw and the only thing he could do was single safe. He said to this day he has no idea if she was safe or out at first, but since he could not see her out (or remember what he saw), he had to call her safe.

Shame on the PU.

I always pregame this (BU at C, pickoff throw to first) with my partner. At the higher levels (high school, college, good travel ball, etc.), this play can happen a couple of times a game. There should be no reason a PU goes blank on this play.

One colleague of mine whom I've worked with on many occasions up to and including Juco ball wants the PU to take this call as a deviation of the normal mechanic.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

for UIC types only:
If you observed this, or had a verifiable report, how would you handle this with the umpire in question?

If I observed it, I would send him home after the game with my thanks and cross him off my list. There are things that you can fix with umpires... most things in fact. But in all my years, I have never seen a guy like this guy change his tune, no matter how hard you try.

Verifiable report? If it came from a very small handful of people, I'd do as described above. If it came from anyone else - I'd have a word with him and decide from his demeanor when explaining his side of the story whether to keep him or not --- and if I kept him, I'd make sure I had the opportunity to watch him discreetly as often as possible.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If I observed it, I would send him home after the game with my thanks and cross him off my list. There are things that you can fix with umpires... most things in fact. But in all my years, I have never seen a guy like this guy change his tune, no matter how hard you try.

Verifiable report? If it came from a very small handful of people, I'd do as described above. If it came from anyone else - I'd have a word with him and decide from his demeanor when explaining his side of the story whether to keep him or not --- and if I kept him, I'd make sure I had the opportunity to watch him discreetly as often as possible.

Very well said...and my thoughts as well.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

for UIC types only:
If you observed this, or had a verifiable report, how would you handle this with the umpire in question?

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

That's right. They should be playing on the swings and with dolls.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Huh....what?....I stopped reading when it was noted 8U were playing in a tournament with umpires.

I'm posting this as me, and not as an admin...

I'm sorry if this offends, Mike... but considering who you are this continual beratement of places that play 8U seriously is insulting. There IS good 8U ball out there. Perhaps you don't have it in your neck of the woods, but it exists, and in areas where it exists, it should be encouraged, not insulted.

[Rich]

I don't get it either. After all, 8U includes girls who turned 9 in January (as my daughter, did). I have girls that are 7, 8, and 9. We go no more than 2 hours away, stay in a hotel room, take over the pool, have some fun family memories.

It isn't all THAT serious. We get umpires, for the most part, that you just have to tolerate. Lots of teenagers working with balloons and no shin guards. And the occasional power-tripping guy, apparently, that hit me when I wasn't looking.

I started the season batting them numerically in the order (from 2 down to 33) and only adjusted the lineups recently. I play all the girls in the infield and outfield. I use 4-5 pitchers (they have to get it to the plate) and 4-5 girls who want to try catching. All girls sit out about the same number of innings.

I'd be happy to umpire the games myself with a coach from the other team on the bases, but that's just not how it's done, here.

(But if you umpired for me, you'd make $100 for a DH or $75 if I hired 2 umpires. Why? Cause I'm an umpire and for those game fees, I'm hiring guys that are not only good umpires, but actually act like they want to be there. BTW, I hire one if I know that one can handle it.)

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Rich

...We get umpires, for the most part, that you just have to tolerate...

So, which is better, umpires you have to tolerate, or games umpired by coaches or dads?

Hiring umpires, especially the kind you describe, for 8U ball does seem like an unnecessary expense.