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Are you just trying to get us all to call an out no matter how legal the play is???
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"I couldn't see well enough to play when I was a boy, so they gave me a special job - they made me an umpire." - President of the United States Harry S. Truman |
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No, even a ground ball being an initial play is not changed by the pitcher.
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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Yes it is if it was deflected as in the OP re-read my rule reference post
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"I couldn't see well enough to play when I was a boy, so they gave me a special job - they made me an umpire." - President of the United States Harry S. Truman |
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Here is the definition of initial play. What do you think after reading it? I am just getting opinions on the play. I hate this play. See page 25, 2.47.3a. Definition of initial play is: "Initial Play. A fielder is considered to be making an initial play on a fair batted ball when she has a reasonable chance to gain control of a ground ball that no other fielder (except the pitcher) has touched". |
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You said the fielder slows down and the runner slides between them. Is she sliding into the base between the bases why did the Fielder slow down and so on that is the problem with what ifs.
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"I couldn't see well enough to play when I was a boy, so they gave me a special job - they made me an umpire." - President of the United States Harry S. Truman |
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I think the problem here is that Strike4 asked a question without specifying the context. Re-state the new scenario you want a ruling on, and we can respond.
Remember, though... interference with a FIELDER is ruled on via one rule; interference with the ball is ruled via a different rule (or rules, really). Often the ruling is the same, but we're discussing here (at least in the OP) one of the times it's not.
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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R1 on 1B and leaves at the release of the pitch. B2 hits a ground ball that touches F1 glove and then hits R1 while sliding toward 2B. F4 stops just prior to running into R1 who is between her and the deflected ball. F4 would have caught the ball and tagged 2B for an out if the ball had not hit R1. Is this interference and R1 out? Would it have been interference if F4 had not stopped and ran into R1 while trying to get to the ball? |
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You cite FED rules in your original post, is it FED rulings specifically you are looking for? Under ASA rules once a ball is deflected the runner must do something intentional to interfere.
That is my problem with the wording of FED rules. Under 8-8-6 it recognizes on a deflected ball the runner does not necessarily have the ability to avoid being hit by the ball, yet under the strict wording of 8-6-10 they technically would be responsible for avoiding a fielder who is going after a deflected ball by the pitcher, but not any other fielder. |
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If that occurred ITUJ before the ball hit the runner, then INT. If that, then it no longer matters if the ball hits the runner, already dead.
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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Now, you say that R1 was hit by the batted ball as she was sliding into second base. Hmmm... I'm not sure I'm seeing F4 being able to field the ball and tag second base ahead of R1 if R1 is already into her slide here. This one is so bang-bang, I would have a hard time ruling that R1 interfered with F4 before the deflected ball hit her while she was sliding into second. I would have to clearly see that F4 stopped or jumped back to avoid R1 before R1 slid into second base to rule interference.
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"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker |
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You are correct in in the "fielded" wording. I think you see my point on the bang-bang part that makes this play a problem. Thanks. |
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Interesting ... given that he typed CAUGHT or CATCH multiple times, I'm envisioning an airborne ball during this entire play - deflected but still in the air...
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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![]() Question to the peanut gallery on Strike's follow up question --- if the ball hit R1, and then R1 and F4 collide... don't we have obstruction (and likely a quite pissed off coach!)?
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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The OP implies already reaching 2nd.
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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