Safe or out

[kab9]

This occurred in a men's SP softball game. Runner is going into third sliding. He realizes he is going in way too hard and grabs the base to hang on. His momentum causes the base to come dislodged and both he and the base end up in foul territory. He actually beat the throw, but the 3rd baseman kept his glove (with the ball) on the runner the whole time. In my opinion, he intentionally pulled the base off because he knew he was going to overslide it. HP umpire (it was his call) ruled him safe. It's been eating at me because I would have called him out. Had he not dislodged the base and held it going into foul territory, he would have been out. To avoid conflict with the HP umpire, I just kept quiet, but I'm really curious what the correct call should be. Every time you think you've seen it all somethig new comes up. Thanks.

I must not have been clear in describing the play. I am certain that the runner INTENTIONALLY pulled the bag off when he realized he was going to overslide the base. It did not accidentally come dislodged. He hung on to it and pulled it off. Maybe he is still safe regardless, but had he NOT pulled it off and overslid the bag while the 3rd baseman had a glove on him, he would have been out. He basically extended 3rd base into foul territory. Not trying to seem airheaded, but with it being obviously intentional, I wondered what the rulilng should be.

[CecilOne]

Grabbing the base deliberately is not the same as removing it.
Runners beating the tag/ball to a base that is dislodged are considered safe.
Offense, neat or not, is the purpose of SP, so safe.

[Dakota]

What was his infraction? Excessive speed on a slide?

Speaking ASA, a dislodged base is considered to have followed the runner (whether he hangs onto it or not). He was safe.

[Skahtboi]

I echo what the previous posters have stated!

[HawkeyeCubP]

8-8-N

"Runner is not out ...when the runner slides into a base and dislodges it from its proper position. The base is considered to have followed the runner."

No inclusion of the word "unintentionally" in this rule, so runner is safe.

[archangel]

I guess Im not good enough to know FOR CERTAIN what a players INTENT is, especially in that 1-2 sec time of sliding, grabbing the base to not overslide, ect....Gotta work harder, I guess...

[Justme]

Originally Posted by kab9

I must not have been clear in describing the play. I am certain that the runner INTENTIONALLY pulled the bag off when he realized he was going to overslide the base. It did not accidentally come dislodged. He hung on to it and pulled it off. Maybe he is still safe regardless, but had he NOT pulled it off and overslid the bag while the 3rd baseman had a glove on him, he would have been out. He basically extended 3rd base into foul territory. Not trying to seem airheaded, but with it being obviously intentional, I wondered what the rulilng should be.

How did you determine that he INTENTIONALLY pulled the base off?

He was sliding but managed to INTENTIONALLY pull the bag off as he passed it? Now that's funny, I've heard something new today.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by archangel

I guess Im not good enough to know FOR CERTAIN what a players INTENT is, especially in that 1-2 sec time of sliding, grabbing the base to not overslide, ect....Gotta work harder, I guess...

Intent does not matter. Refer to my previous post.

[bluezebra]

Having set hundreds of bases, and removed them, it's next to impossible to intentionally pull out a base when sliding. you have to be standing, or at least kneeling, to get the leverage. Unless they're break-aways. Then they come up without effort.

Bob

[tcblue13]

The bases strapped to pins in the ground move easily without being dislodged.
IOW it is still attached to the pins but pulled to an almost upright position or twisted as far as a full base width out of position.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Intent does not matter. Refer to my previous post.

Hawk, my post was SARCASM !!

[HawkeyeCubP]

Gotcha. My bad.

[blu_bawls]

I agree the runner is safe.

This kinda reminds me of a play I had about three years ago in Mens FP.

R1 slides safely into third on close tag. Third baseman moves away and R1 loses contact with base but his front leg is over the base with his foot touching the ground in foul territory. Third baseman see's this and reapplies the tag. I call OUT!

Manager says that he is safe because he is in the vicinity of the base.

Funny.