Runner out or safe

[Andy]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Initial play is irrelevant to the scenario in the OP.

I'm going to ask you to explain this.

Initial play (as defined in FED rules) is the centerpoint of this whole play.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

--- if the ball hit R1, and then R1 and F4 collide... don't we have obstruction (and likely a quite pissed off coach!)?

Obviously for the newbies you mean if F4 hindered the runner!
The OP implies already reaching 2nd.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

I'm going to ask you to explain this.

Initial play (as defined in FED rules) is the centerpoint of this whole play.

It's the OP perception that it is the centerpoint. This is a deflected batted ball hitting the runner not in contact with a base. It is not interfering with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball on the initial play.

[shagpal]

pull the word "act" on these boys.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It's the OP perception that it is the centerpoint. This is a deflected batted ball hitting the runner not in contact with a base. It is not interfering with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball on the initial play.

[shagpal]

OK, I found this. comment if you think this does or does not apply.

this reads as an initial play per the casebook 2.47.3B.

in this case, it states that if the ball deflects off the pitcher, it is still considered an initial play. however the case refers to a runner contacting the fielder after a deflected ball. it is not addressing a runner being struck by that deflected ball.

per 2.47.3B, if it is deflected off of any fielder other than the pitcher, it is no longer an initial play.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It's the OP perception that it is the centerpoint. This is a deflected batted ball hitting the runner not in contact with a base. It is not interfering with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball on the initial play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shagpal

OK, I found this. comment if you think this does or does not apply.

this reads as an initial play per the casebook 2.47.3B.

in this case, it states that if the ball deflects off the pitcher, it is still considered an initial play. however the case refers to a runner contacting the fielder after a deflected ball. it is not addressing a runner being struck by that deflected ball.

per 2.47.3B, if it is deflected off of any fielder other than the pitcher, it is no longer an initial play.

Again, and again and again.........there is no interference with the fielder, so the initial play issue is irrelevant.

[MD Longhorn]

I'm stunned that this thread has become 4 pages of actual umpires (not fans and coaches) who don't see the glaring difference between interfering with a fielder and getting struck by a ball (or interfering with a ball). They are treated completely differently.

[shagpal]

who said interference? there is no "act". didn't you take everyone on that road before?

in the casebook, there was contact w/ the fielder, so that was the act. this is a deflected ball, but the casebook calls it an "initial play". let you guys reconcile that.

I just posted what I found. I don't even work HS.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Again, and again and again.........there is no interference with the fielder, so the initial play issue is irrelevant.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I'm stunned that this thread has become 4 pages of actual umpires (not fans and coaches) who don't see the glaring difference between interfering with a fielder and getting struck by a ball (or interfering with a ball). They are treated completely differently.

Apparently, it is a reading comprehension thing.