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Old Tue Aug 12, 2003, 11:01pm
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Runner coming in from 3rd steps on top of catchers foot which is on home plate. Catcher tags runner before he gets back to touch home plate again.

Runner out or safe?

Glen
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Old Tue Aug 12, 2003, 11:33pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glen G
Runner coming in from 3rd steps on top of catchers foot which is on home plate. Catcher tags runner before he gets back to touch home plate again.

Runner out or safe?

Glen
Did the catcher have the ball at the time the runner stepped on the catcher's foot?

If no, obstruction & safe. If yes, out.
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Old Wed Aug 13, 2003, 04:55am
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I agree with Dakota, remembering that when the runner stepped on the catcher's foot, I need to insure that the whole foot was blocked... if the runner's toe was on the catcher's foot, did her heel touch the plate? If the heel stepped on the catcher's foot, did even one lone cleat on her toe touch the plate?
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Old Wed Aug 13, 2003, 07:48am
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Quote:
Originally posted by SC Ump
I agree with Dakota, remembering that when the runner stepped on the catcher's foot, I need to insure that the whole foot was blocked... if the runner's toe was on the catcher's foot, did her heel touch the plate? If the heel stepped on the catcher's foot, did even one lone cleat on her toe touch the plate?
Good point - probably very likely some part of the runner's foot did touch the plate.
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Old Wed Aug 13, 2003, 12:22pm
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In my humble judgement when a foot is on top of a base of plate it is considered part of the base or plate. If runner stepped on catachers foot prior to being tagged, run safe. This is not like football where to body must contact the ground to be ruled down.
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Old Wed Aug 13, 2003, 12:51pm
JEL JEL is offline
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Per ASA 8-7-I, the runner must touch home plate. The catchers foot is not a part of the plate any more than the hands are part of the bat.
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Old Wed Aug 13, 2003, 01:35pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Woodchuck
In my humble judgement when a foot is on top of a base of plate it is considered part of the base or plate. If runner stepped on catachers foot prior to being tagged, run safe. This is not like football where to body must contact the ground to be ruled down.
Can you back that judgment up with a rule, a POE, a case play, clinic guide or any other authoritative source for softball?

If not, then I go with what the rule clearly says - "touch" the plate. Not touch something else that is touching the plate.
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Old Wed Aug 13, 2003, 03:56pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Woodchuck
In my humble judgement when a foot is on top of a base of plate it is considered part of the base or plate. If runner stepped on catachers foot prior to being tagged, run safe. This is not like football where to body must contact the ground to be ruled down.
Speaking ASA

Then would you call a runner out that slides into a defender's foot flush against the base (legally) when tagged with the ball after the contact?

If so, you have conflicting analogies. I would think that if you are going to consider the foot part of the base, it must be part of the base in total, not just when related to the top portion.

If a catcher is legally sitting on top of the plate, is the runner safe if they fall on top of the catcher prior to being tagged out?

Extreme? Maybe, but we've all seen weirder things happen on the field.

The foot is not part of the base. If there and contacted prior to the arrival of the ball, it's obstruction. If the ball gets there first, it is an effective blocking of the base.

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Old Thu Aug 14, 2003, 07:59pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Woodchuck
In my humble judgement when a foot is on top of a base of plate it is considered part of the base or plate. If runner stepped on catachers foot prior to being tagged, run safe. This is not like football where to body must contact the ground to be ruled down.
So you are saying because the catcher was touching the plate, and the runner touched the catcher, the runner is safe? That just dosen't make sense. What if the runner had touched the catcher on the head with one finger, safe then too?
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Old Thu Aug 14, 2003, 08:04pm
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I would say this has to be obstruction. There is no mention of the catcher dropping the ball. It sounds like the catcher didn't have the ball when the runner stepped on him. I mean how can the catcher has the ball when his foot gets stepped, and not be able to tag the runner. It looks to me like the catcher didn't have the ball untill after his foot got stepped on.
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Old Thu Aug 14, 2003, 10:43pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by LDUB
I would say this has to be obstruction. There is no mention of the catcher dropping the ball. It sounds like the catcher didn't have the ball when the runner stepped on him. I mean how can the catcher has the ball when his foot gets stepped, and not be able to tag the runner. It looks to me like the catcher didn't have the ball untill after his foot got stepped on.
I agree from the description we were given that seems likely. However, Glen hasn't told us yet if the catcher had the ball or not. It's possible the catcher just missed the tag.
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Old Fri Aug 15, 2003, 10:17pm
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Sorry for not getting back to you I wasn't online. It didn't happen to me but it did to another ump and he was asking me. As I understand it he didn't have the ball.

I agree with Irishmafia's answer of obstruction. Similar to a 3rd baseman blocking the bag without the ball.

Glen
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Old Mon Aug 18, 2003, 08:40pm
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likely indeed

I get this situation frequently at first base during adult AA slow-pitch. A batter-runner comes around first base and the defense throws behind him or her attempting the putout as he/she returns. Quite often the runner's foot will wind up on top of 1B's foot (my guys and gals hardly ever slide), and almost as often the first baseman will point to that as proof of the out. Which it is, as Mike said, IF the catch was made first, and you have to be watching two places for that.

Ky Blue
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Old Mon Aug 18, 2003, 11:04pm
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I must also agree with Mr. Rowe's obstruction explanation. It all depends on whether the catcher had the ball. And in this case, the qualification "speadking ASA" wasn't even needed. No ball, obstruction, safe. Have ball, can try to block.

As to the quote "I mean how can the catcher has the ball when his foot gets stepped, and not be able to tag the runner?", it is very possible to have the ball, have a foot on or in front of the plate or a base, and have no opportunity to make a tag before the runner tries to step on the base. Consider if the player had stretched or fallen catching the ball. The player has the ball, but can't possibly reach the base or the runner's path without getting up first. They would have an out on a force, but when a tag is required, different story.

If the catcher's foot is stepped on, it could be very hard to tell if any part of the runner's heel or toe did or did not touch the base as the step rolls over the foot. I probably have "safe". If I see effort to make the tag, the catcher is just late. If I see a leg whip or trip, hoping to create a chance to then make a tag, depending on level and severity, either a warning or an ejection (USC) if flagrant.
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Old Wed Aug 20, 2003, 08:43am
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One more observation: 8-19-03 Padres vs Braves;
Castilla sliding into 3rd, Aurellia applies tag, Cox argues(slightly, Vinnie knew he was out). Replay shows clearly runners foot hit basemans foot at edge of bag, then came tag, both feet slid up to top of bag, tag still applied, runner never got bag, out. Good call Blue! Made me remember this thread.
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