The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 07:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 231
Runner on 2nd. 2 outs. Single to right center. Runner tries to score. He gets gunned down by a couple feet or so. When he slides into the catcher (non-maliciously), the mitt comes off the catcher and lays there with the ball still in it. Runner out or safe?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 08:01am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bentonville, AR
Posts: 461
Send a message via AIM to jumpmaster Send a message via MSN to jumpmaster Send a message via Yahoo to jumpmaster
Safe. The catcher failed to maintain control of the ball.

--
jumpmaster al
__________________
Alan Roper

Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here - CPT John Parker, April 19, 1775, Lexington, Mass
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 08:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 201
Safe. It's the same as if the ball popped out and was laying on the ground.
__________________
David A. Brand
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 08:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 3,100
I know this isn't a word usage board, but people who want to be correct might appreciate knowing that the ball was lying, not laying, on the ground; the mitt lies, lot lays, there with the ball in it.

Forgive me, guys!
__________________
greymule
More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men!
Roll Tide!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 08:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Newburgh NY
Posts: 1,822
Originally posted by Huskerblue

Runner on 2nd. 2 outs. Single to right center. Runner tries to score. He gets gunned down by a couple feet or so. When he slides into the catcher (non-maliciously), the mitt comes off the catcher and lays there with the ball still in it. Runner out or safe?

Safe - here's the applicable rule:


DEFINITION OF tag OBR RULE 2.00

A TAG is the action of a fielder in touching a base with his body while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove; or touching a runner with the ball, or with his hand or glove holding the ball, while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove.

Pete Booth
__________________
Peter M. Booth
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 08:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 201
Quote:
Originally posted by greymule
I know this isn't a word usage board, but people who want to be correct might appreciate knowing that the ball was lying, not laying, on the ground; the mitt lies, lot lays, there with the ball in it.

Forgive me, guys!
Man, this is a tough room. LOL
__________________
David A. Brand
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 09:22am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,729
OK,

It used to be fun here until Mr. Grammar showed up?

What possible reason could you have for making that correction . . .

1) To show you are smarter than the poster?

2) To embarrass the poster

3) Because you are responsible for proper usage in America?

Your post proved no pupose and it wasn't even PHUNNI.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 10:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 3,100
Certainly not to embarrass anyone, but I was aware that somebody might resent my post, so I tried to word it gently. It was just because this common error appeared twice.

I spent many years teaching writing to managers at AT&T, Bristol-Myers Squibb, and several other companies. Most of them didn't know the difference between lay and lie either, but they were glad to learn it. Maybe one of the previous posters feels the same way.
__________________
greymule
More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men!
Roll Tide!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 11:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 286
Thumbs up Lie or Lay

The improper use of the words "lie" and "lay" is prevalent in literature and usage in the United States. I have an old High School classmate (Class of '66)that is compiling a rather extensive list of where and when he sees the misapplication of either word. I'm forwarding him the posts regarding this very discussion. I'm with you, gray. Especially in honor of the queen's reign, it's good to find another human being that cares about the queen's language. As for the question at hand . . . the definition of "Tag" is pretty clear, wouldn't you agree?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 11:47am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,729
First

Never has there been anything more UN-important than "Grammar" when people post on boards like this.

All you guys do is attempt to intimidate some who:

1) Aren't as educated as the "correctors",

2) Don't EVEN speak "The Queen's Language" as their first language,

3) Or don't have time to bring out the usage book before posting from their place of work.

Your points could be well taken if this was a board on "Proper Grammar in America" however it is a group of guys sittin' around having a beer talkin' ball . . .

You have done the page no dis-service but certainly haven't done anything positive for the rank and file.

As bFair says,

Just My Opinion

Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 12:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 286
Wink You Started It!

Tim,
Chill, baby! Except for your replies, there hasn't been an intent on anyone's part to ridicule someone's language. What I said was, the improper use of "lie" and "lay" is prevalent in the English language . . . including discussion boards for baseball officials. My reply above, by the way, was given in response to Pete's "tag" definition. I was also replying to graymules question and thought everyone would find it interesting that there's actually someone in the world who's compiling a list of misuses of those two words.

Just let sleeping dogs,lie. Or is it, "lay"?

Jerry

P.S. You do agree the runner's safe, don't you? You didn't make any mention of that in your reply.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 12:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 3,100
Last Sunday, the third baseman for one team objected to my safe call by saying, "C'mon ump, he was out. I tug him before he slud in!" You will be happy to know, Tim, that I did not correct him.

Jerry, please connect me with your friend. I have gathered a lot of material over the years, and he might be able to use some of it.

Incidentally, Fay Vincent was a strong proponent of the correct use of English, and so was his Deputy Commissioner, Steve Greenberg.

But OK, no more corrections. Even the ASA rule book mixes up "lay" and "lie."
__________________
greymule
More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men!
Roll Tide!
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 02:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,729
Hmmm,

I forgot, there was a question? :-}

SAFE.

By the way, my Masters Thesis in Linguistics was a study of the difference between the words fortunate and fortuitous.

Now that would leave you on the edge of your seat.

BTW, we see changes all the time from the "School Marm" grammar rules that were brought to cities in the late 1800's all the time.

Best example I can give you is the current view of the possesive when the word ends in a double letter . . . i.e. if you were talking about the coat that belonged to Ross . . .

Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 02:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 286
Wink

Tim,
Don't forget about "its" and "it's"! BTW, my thesis was on the infallibility of "The Peter Principle". (It was a Business Ethics course). Alas, I believe proper English and grammar will become a lost art. Even in Law, concessions are being made to make it understandable to the layman.

No doubt . . . the runner is SAFE!

Jerry :-)
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2002, 03:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 3,100
Yes--safe at home.

Now to the important stuff. Tim, my rule book (Chicago Manual of Style), has "Ross's land" as an example in its (OK, Jerry?) self-contained case book (see 6.24). Quite fortuitous I'm sure--but indeed fortunate--that it deals precisely with the play, er, example, you gave.

I can't seem to find it, but I used to have the BRD of grammar and word usage. It took hundreds of grammar and usage plays and then cited how various rule books (Chicago, American Heritage, Fowler, Follet, Schoolmarm, etc.) would call them.

I guess my problem is that I am not only a baseball/softball umpire, but also a grammar and word usage arbiter in my job as an editor.
__________________
greymule
More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men!
Roll Tide!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1