Runner out or safe

[strike4]

R1 on 1B and leaves at the release of the pitch. B2 hits ball that touches F1 glove and then hits R1 while sliding toward 2B. F4 would have caught the ball for a close out if the ball had not hit R1. See FED rules 2.47.3a and 8.8.6. Both rules could apply with differing results. Please cited rule you are using when giving your opinion.

[RKBUmp]

Based on your description of the play I dont know how a runner who is sliding into a base would be able to avoid a ball that has been deflected. I would say 8-8-6 applies and the runner is not out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by strike4

R1 on 1B and leaves at the release of the pitch. B2 hits ball that touches F1 glove and then hits R1 while sliding toward 2B. F4 would have caught the ball for a close out if the ball had not hit R1. See FED rules 2.47.3a and 8.8.6. Both rules could apply with differing results. Please cited rule you are using when giving your opinion.

2.47.3a is a definition to be used when applying rule, not a rule in itself.

Please cite a rule which would determine the runner to be called out.

[strike4]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

2.47.3a is a definition to be used when applying rule, not a rule in itself.

Please cite a rule which would determine the runner to be called out.

See 8.6.10a. 2.47.3a is the definition of initial play. Rule 8.6.10a says "the runner is out if the runner interferes with a fielder attempting to make an initial play".

[RKBUmp]

And 8-8-6 says the runner is not out if they could not avoid contact with the ball if it has been touched by any fielder, including the pitcher.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Based on your description of the play I dont know how a runner who is sliding into a base would be able to avoid a ball that has been deflected. I would say 8-8-6 applies and the runner is not out.

Yep.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by strike4

See 8.6.10a. 2.47.3a is the definition of initial play. Rule 8.6.10a says "the runner is out if the runner interferes with a fielder attempting to make an initial play".

How is being hit by a deflected batted ball interfering with a fielder?

[strike4]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

And 8-8-6 says the runner is not out if they could not avoid contact with the ball if it has been touched by any fielder, including the pitcher.

Have you ever called a runner out who was running between bases and the ball hit her even though she tried to jump over it?

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by strike4

Have you ever called a runner out who was running between bases and the ball hit her even though she tried to jump over it?

Completely different situation than you originally posted. Yes, have called out plenty of runners for being hit by a batted ball before it passed an infielder. I have also had several situations where the ball was deflected and the runner had no ability to avoid the ball. The rule is pretty clear, if the ball was touched and the runner could not avoid contact they are not out.

[DaveASA/FED]

Well I hate this part of the rule or in this case the combination of the rules. But I have to agree with strike 4 on this one. The runner would be out. By the citations that were given that fielder is still in the act of making an initial play per the defination so it is still INT. Again it gives me heart burn but as I have been told when I argued it....that's the way the rules are written.

[strike4]

Originally Posted by Dakota

How is being hit by a deflected batted ball interfering with a fielder?

See page 67, rule 8.6.10a reads "The runner is out if runner interferes with a fielder attempting to make the initial play on a fair batted ball (2.47).

See page 25, 2.47.3a. Definition of initial play is: "Initial Play. A fielder is considered to be making an initial play on a fair batted ball when she has a reasonable chance to gain control of a ground ball that no other fielder (except the pitcher) has touched".

It is interference based on the definition of initial play and rule 8.6.10a.

See why I posted this question.

[RKBUmp]

Then why is rule 8-8-6 in the rule book and specifically lists including the pitcher?

[strike4]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Then why is rule 8-8-6 in the rule book and specifically lists including the pitcher?

Now you see why I ask this question. You have two rules that seem to be in total conflict. I hope others will comment on this situation.

[Andy]

This is the "hole" between the rule about making an initial play and being contacted by a deflected batted ball.

The only thing I see, and this is not an official interp, is that the 8-6-10a says ".... interferes with a fielder attempting to make the initial play on a fair batted ball..."

Does that imply that there must be some sort of contact or interaction between the runner and the fielder beyond just the runner being contacted by the deflected (by the pitcher) batted ball?

[RKBUmp]

Andy, just sent you an email about this. I noticed the same thing in the rules clarifications for 8-6-10. When it discussed a deflected ball it only referenced the runner making contact with the fielder, not the ball.