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Old Mon Sep 30, 2013, 11:44am
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Question Blocked out on fair/foul call

What do you call when you get blocked out on a fair/foul call? Line drive down 1st base line. I line up to call it but batter/runner running in fair territory moves to running lane just as ball hits ground. Also, first basemen of course runs over to see if it's fair/foul as well.

I make "no" call cuz I simply cannot see it. Because I make "no" call it's assumed to be fair by defense and they attempt a play. Of course, I hear afterward it's foul.

I left it fair. Was I right?

By the way, there was no time to get anywhere but looking down the line from behind the plate.
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Old Mon Sep 30, 2013, 12:02pm
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Originally Posted by Linknblue View Post
What do you call when you get blocked out on a fair/foul call? Line drive down 1st base line. I line up to call it but batter/runner running in fair territory moves to running lane just as ball hits ground. Also, first basemen of course runs over to see if it's fair/foul as well.

I make "no" call cuz I simply cannot see it. Because I make "no" call it's assumed to be fair by defense and they attempt a play. Of course, I hear afterward it's foul.

I left it fair. Was I right?

By the way, there was no time to get anywhere but looking down the line from behind the plate.
First... you don't get blocked out. You should be a few steps up the line anyway, and you should anticipate when you see the runner coming in on you and take a step fair or foul. You can't tell us you didn't have time to get anywhere and also tell us that the batter-runner was moving toward the running lane - which is halfway up the line.

Second - if for some reason you are blocked, you use what you know to make the call. Whatever that may be.

One question ... what do you mean that you "hear afterward it's foul"? From whom? From partner? Fix it. From disgruntled coach or idiot fans? Ignore as you would any other nonsense from disgruntled coaches and fans.
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Old Mon Sep 30, 2013, 12:15pm
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
First... you don't get blocked out. You should be a few steps up the line anyway, and you should anticipate when you see the runner coming in on you and take a step fair or foul. You can't tell us you didn't have time to get anywhere and also tell us that the batter-runner was moving toward the running lane - which is halfway up the line.

Second - if for some reason you are blocked, you use what you know to make the call. Whatever that may be.

One question ... what do you mean that you "hear afterward it's foul"? From whom? From partner? Fix it. From disgruntled coach or idiot fans? Ignore as you would any other nonsense from disgruntled coaches and fans.

That's all fine and dandy IF you have lines. We don't have lines around here. Something about a war on drugs...I don't know.

I have been known to scream at F3/F5 or a base coach to "give me the line" so I can see the ball. If I have to, I will try to move slightly, one way or the other, but the more you move, the more likely you are to make an errant call on a ball near the line.

As you note, you use what you have to determine the call. If I last saw the ball fair, it is most likely to be called fair. OTOH, if a base coach steps into the field because s/he HAS to get a better look at it than I have, that ball may end up being foul

Point is, you have to make a call 'cause you ain't doin' it over. You just do the best you can.
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Old Mon Sep 30, 2013, 04:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linknblue View Post
What do you call when you get blocked out on a fair/foul call? Line drive down 1st base line. I line up to call it but batter/runner running in fair territory moves to running lane just as ball hits ground. Also, first basemen of course runs over to see if it's fair/foul as well.

I make "no" call cuz I simply cannot see it. Because I make "no" call it's assumed to be fair by defense and they attempt a play. Of course, I hear afterward it's foul.

I left it fair. Was I right?

By the way, there was no time to get anywhere but looking down the line from behind the plate.
Get where you can make a call and make the call. Live and die by your call 50/50. Every game someone wins and someone does not. All we can do is learn and do our best.
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Old Tue Oct 01, 2013, 07:21pm
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The first thing it seems that folks want to do on this forum is to be critical. I asked what you would rule if you got blocked out on fair/foul. It happened! I was looking down the line to make the call....right on the baseline. Folks jumped/ran/walked whatever in front of my just before ball hit the ground. I couldn't see where it hit. I have to make a call right? I didn't yell foul cuz I can't take that call back. I remained silent trying to get a "read" on the situation. I ended up ruling fair....but really had no clue where it hit.

The question was, do you rule fair if you don't see it or foul if you don't see it?

This is single man so I can't go to anyone.
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Old Tue Oct 01, 2013, 08:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linknblue View Post
The first thing it seems that folks want to do on this forum is to be critical. I asked what you would rule if you got blocked out on fair/foul. It happened! I was looking down the line to make the call....right on the baseline. Folks jumped/ran/walked whatever in front of my just before ball hit the ground. I couldn't see where it hit. I have to make a call right? I didn't yell foul cuz I can't take that call back. I remained silent trying to get a "read" on the situation. I ended up ruling fair....but really had no clue where it hit.

The question was, do you rule fair if you don't see it or foul if you don't see it?

This is single man so I can't go to anyone.
Seems the question was answered

Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Second - if for some reason you are blocked, you use what you know to make the call. Whatever that may be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
If I last saw the ball fair, it is most likely to be called fair. OTOH, if a base coach steps into the field because s/he HAS to get a better look at it than I have, that ball may end up being foul

Point is, you have to make a call 'cause you ain't doin' it over. You just do the best you can.
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Old Tue Oct 01, 2013, 10:25pm
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As umpires, we just have to use the information that we have to make the call, there is no hard fast rule to go either way. Take what you see and look for any additional indicators, such as the offensive and defensive players actions; then make a call. I would tell you to sell your call and show confidence in yourself when doing so. This is the way I handle it and I do not second guess myself, it's a judgment call.
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Old Wed Oct 02, 2013, 09:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linknblue View Post
The first thing it seems that folks want to do on this forum is to be critical. I asked what you would rule if you got blocked out on fair/foul. It happened! I was looking down the line to make the call....right on the baseline. Folks jumped/ran/walked whatever in front of my just before ball hit the ground. I couldn't see where it hit. I have to make a call right? I didn't yell foul cuz I can't take that call back. I remained silent trying to get a "read" on the situation. I ended up ruling fair....but really had no clue where it hit.

The question was, do you rule fair if you don't see it or foul if you don't see it?

This is single man so I can't go to anyone.
I don't believe I, or Irish, were being critical at all. Both of us answered the question. A) Find a way to not be blocked. B) if it happens anyway, use what you DO know to make the best call possible.

Exactly what answer did you want, if this was not acceptable to you?
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Old Wed Oct 02, 2013, 10:47am
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This is really no different than what happens when you are blocked from seeing other things, and you have no help from a partner because you're flying solo.

How often have you had the catcher pop up on a high pitch, and you miss seeing the batter fail to check his/her swing? Or on a bunt in front of the plate, the catcher jumps up to go field it, and you miss seeing the ball hit the batter while he/she is out of the box? Stuff happens.

I didn't read any criticism other than of the constructive variety. You were told to do the best you can to not get blocked. But in those instances where you do, you just call what you feel is correct, based upon your best judgment coupled with the reaction of the players. You cannot use a default argument (it's assumed fair until proven otherwise).
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Old Wed Oct 02, 2013, 11:23am
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Smile Not critical?

First... you don't get blocked out. You should be a few steps up the line anyway, and you should anticipate when you see the runner coming in on you and take a step fair or foul. You can't tell us you didn't have time to get anywhere and also tell us that the batter-runner was moving toward the running lane - which is halfway up the line.

M D, perhaps you do not realize how you come across but the above quote from your post seems critical to me. I admit I may be a little sensitive but when someone is asking for help you could give the help with a better tone.
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Old Wed Oct 02, 2013, 12:16pm
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Text has no tone - you put your own tone into it when reading. Nothing in the paragraph you quoted was critical.
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Old Wed Oct 02, 2013, 02:06pm
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Liar, liar, pants on fire!

Quote:
Originally Posted by md longhorn View Post
text has no tone - you put your own tone into it when reading. Nothing in the paragraph you quoted was critical.
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Old Wed Oct 02, 2013, 02:47pm
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Text has no tone
Why does my phone beep every time I get one then?
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Old Wed Oct 02, 2013, 04:05pm
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Smile critical

How about your second sentence where you said "You can't tell us you didn't have time to get any where" I guess you never got blocked out so you wouldn't understand. Now I'm being critical. Look what you started!!

Last edited by bluejay; Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 04:07pm. Reason: typo
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Old Wed Oct 02, 2013, 04:58pm
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Originally Posted by bluejay View Post
How about your second sentence where you said "You can't tell us you didn't have time to get any where" I guess you never got blocked out so you wouldn't understand. Now I'm being critical. Look what you started!!


If I have NEVER been blocked, then (2) would be unnecessary advice.

However, the OP said he didn't have time to move, yet the BR moved into his way at the running lane, which starts 30 feet away. That's plenty of time to move SOMEwhere --- just gotta make sure that somewhere is productive. And with BR inside and appearing to move toward the line, a step or so outside probably would have made this call easier for him.

However ... if ANY of that was "critical", well - as umpires I'd expect most of us to have at least a LITTLE thicker skin than that. It wasn't intended to be critical - it was intended to answer the question. Move first, call with the info you have if necessary. Pretty straightforward, and I'm still not sure what advice would have managed to be non-critical.

If he wanted someone to say, "Call fair when in doubt" or "Call foul when in doubt" - either of those are bad advice, he's not going to get either of those suggestions here.
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