Fair/foul call

[jmkupka]

I recall a not-so-recent thread describing a similar situation to mine:

A popup lands beyond the pitcher's plate between F1 & F4, and backspins untouched til it rolls across the baseline this side of 1B.

The discussion dealt with the triangulation of 1B, 3B & Home plate.

In my case, I called it foul, and got no argument. I forget what the verdict was in the thread.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

I recall a not-so-recent thread describing a similar situation to mine:

A popup lands beyond the pitcher's plate between F1 & F4, and backspins untouched til it rolls across the baseline this side of 1B.

The discussion dealt with the triangulation of 1B, 3B & Home plate.

In my case, I called it foul, and got no argument. I forget what the verdict was in the thread.

Which ruleset are you using?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

I recall a not-so-recent thread describing a similar situation to mine:

A popup lands beyond the pitcher's plate between F1 & F4, and backspins untouched til it rolls across the baseline this side of 1B.

The discussion dealt with the triangulation of 1B, 3B & Home plate.

In my case, I called it foul, and got no argument. I forget what the verdict was in the thread.

ASA - foul ball.

NFHS - I believe this is a fair ball if it lands beyond a direct line between 1B & 3B. I'm sure someone will verify or correct me.

[jmkupka]

ASA- so I got it right. Thanks guys.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

NFHS - I believe this is a fair ball if it lands beyond a direct line between 1B & 3B. I'm sure someone will verify or correct me.

That's the current interpretation.

[shipwreck]

Could someone give the rule reference for NFHS if in fact it is a fair ball if it is past a line running from 1st to 3rd? Dave

[MNBlue]

NFHS 2.20.1.f
A fair ball is a batted ball that:
first falls or is first touched on or over fair territory beyond first or third base.

ASA 1.Fair Ball.F
A legally batted ball that:
First falls or is first touched on or over fair territory beyond first, second or third base.



Our NFHS State UIC has told us (me directly) that the NFHS ruling for a batted ball that first lands beyond a direct line from 1B to 3B is a fair ball, since the NFHS definition does not include 2B and ASA's definition does include 2B.

That is the closest to a ruling that I can find.

[shipwreck]

There are some on this board who repeatedly state that some interpretations are wrong because that isn't the intent of the rule by the governing bodies. To me that is the case in this scenario. I would think if NFHS wanted that to be a fair ball, they would have put in the wording "lands past an imaginary line between 1st and 3rd." JMHO Dave

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

There are some on this board who repeatedly state that some interpretations are wrong because that isn't the intent of the rule by the governing bodies. To me that is the case in this scenario. I would think if NFHS wanted that to be a fair ball, they would have put in the wording "lands past an imaginary line between 1st and 3rd." JMHO Dave

I totally understand your opinion, and, for the most part, agree with you. But I'm in a 'do what I tell you' position, and such have been directed to call it a fair ball.

It would be nice if the NFHS cleaned up the language - either way, just make it more definitive.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

ASA 1.Fair Ball.F
A legally batted ball that:
First falls or is first touched on or over fair territory beyond first, second or third base.

Actually, this is referring to a fly ball hit beyond 1B or 3B. You actually want...

ASA-1-Fair Ball-B:
Bounds over or past first or third base, which is in fair territory, regardless of where the ball hits after going over the base.

And, conversely...

ASA-1-Foul Ball-A:
Settles or is touched (not caught) on or over foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base.

While I agree with Mike's interpretation that this would be a foul ball, I wonder if ASA will clarify this someday. This "line" we're hearing about is, well, interesting. I'd prefer using the baselines and not some diagonal.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Actually, this is referring to a fly ball hit beyond 1B or 3B. You actually want...

No, I don't think so.

The scenario is a fly ball that lands beyond a diagonal from 1B to 3B BUT in front of the baselines from 1B-2B-3B and subsequently rolls into foul territory not beyond 1B or 3B.

I'm saying that ASA says this is a foul ball and the interpretation I was given for NFHS is that it is a fair ball.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

No, I don't think so.

The scenario is a fly ball that lands beyond a diagonal from 1B to 3B BUT in front of the baselines from 1B-2B-3B and subsequently rolls into foul territory not beyond 1B or 3B.

I'm saying that ASA says this is a foul ball and the interpretation I was given for NFHS is that it is a fair ball.

Sorry, I should have also quoted A...

ASA-1-Fair Ball-A: Settles or is touched on or over fair territory between home and first base or between home and third base.

I think you need to read the wording a little closer. A, B and E deal with everything from home plate to the square formed by the baselines. F, G and H deal with everything beyond that.

I agree with you that both ASA and NFHS need something to handle this scenario, and I have no problem with your call. Just which rule you're invoking.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

F, G and H deal with everything beyond that.

Exactly. That is why I used it. ASA 1.Fair Ball.F says an untouched batted ball that lands beyond the diamond will be a fair ball even if it rolls into foul territory. This means that an untouched batted ball that lands inside the diamond and rolls into foul territory will be a foul ball.

The interpretation of the NFHS rule is in conflict with this.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Exactly. That is why I used it. ASA 1.Fair Ball.F says an untouched batted ball that lands beyond the diamond will be a fair ball even if it rolls into foul territory. This means that an untouched batted ball that lands inside the diamond and rolls into foul territory will be a foul ball.

The interpretation of the NFHS rule is in conflict with this.

So you use the inverse of a rule as a rule?

Are you in IT, by any chance?

If using this logic, then the tie must definitely go to the runner. Just picking.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Are you in IT, by any chance?

I used to be.

I would have used any of the cites in 1.Foul Ball, but none of them seemed to apply to the situation. The closest was the inverse of 1.Fair Ball.F.