Look back rule

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by roadking

NCAA
12.21.6.5 The batter-runner, after overrunning first base, must immediately
return nonstop to first base or, if she does not retouch first base, must
make an attempt to advance to second. If after passing the base, the base
runner is heading back toward first base within the basepath extended, she
may make a decision to go to either base. However, stepping beyond the
extended basepath in foul territory commits the base runner to first base
while stepping beyond the basepath toward the second-base side commits
the base runner to second base.

Perhaps you aren't realizing that no one here is talking about the NCAA version of the rule. The discussion at this point is about everyone OTHER than NCAA.

Tom, I hear what you are saying, and submit that one basic premise of the LBR is that runners always have a "decision moment", which can vary according to the play. Most often, that moment is the one stop we discuss. In cases where a stopped runner sees the ball into the circle, we say that the runner gets to pick up the ball, recognize where it is, who has it, and that it is in control, and then must immediately make a decision.

I don't see the overrun differently. Once the runner turns back, if the ball is in the circle, the runner sees it (or should see it), the decision moment is now; if she doesn't break for 2nd NOW, she is committed to 1st (EXCEPT in NCAA; already said why I don't like that). If she is simply being a runner who is not subject to LBR because the ball isn't in the circle, she still has a decision to make based on the protection provided by overrunning the base; to make an attempt puts her in jeopardy, to return to the base (and accept THAT protection) means she is committing to first; under the overrun rule.

But, if the runner returning to first breaks for second before or simultaneous with F1 gaining control in the circle, I don't have a LBR violation, I have a runner that decided to attempt to advance legally, and is now in jeopardy. If she breaks AFTER F1 gains control, then I say she has taken both bites (ala NCAA), and have a LBR violation everywhere else.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Perhaps you aren't realizing that no one here is talking about the NCAA version of the rule. The discussion at this point is about everyone OTHER than NCAA.

Tom, I hear what you are saying, and submit that one basic premise of the LBR is that runners always have a "decision moment", which can vary according to the play. Most often, that moment is the one stop we discuss. In cases where a stopped runner sees the ball into the circle, we say that the runner gets to pick up the ball, recognize where it is, who has it, and that it is in control, and then must immediately make a decision.

I don't see the overrun differently. Once the runner turns back, if the ball is in the circle, the runner sees it (or should see it), the decision moment is now; if she doesn't break for 2nd NOW, she is committed to 1st (EXCEPT in NCAA; already said why I don't like that). If she is simply being a runner who is not subject to LBR because the ball isn't in the circle, she still has a decision to make based on the protection provided by overrunning the base; to make an attempt puts her in jeopardy, to return to the base (and accept THAT protection) means she is committing to first; under the overrun rule.

But, if the runner returning to first breaks for second before or simultaneous with F1 gaining control in the circle, I don't have a LBR violation, I have a runner that decided to attempt to advance legally, and is now in jeopardy. If she breaks AFTER F1 gains control, then I say she has taken both bites (ala NCAA), and have a LBR violation everywhere else.

I see what you are saying. Still, I think it is an unnecessary special case. See next post.