Look Back Rule

[MD Longhorn]

ASA Rules.

I know the answer to this ... but am not believed by a partner, despite reading the rulebook. He's a lurker here, so asked me to post to prove the point one way or another.

R1 on third, 2 outs, Batter walks. Ball thrown to the circle. Pitcher watches BR, but otherwise does nothing. BR rounds first slowly without stopping and proceeds slowly toward 2nd. F1 facing BR, can't see R1. Coach whispers, "now", and R1 starts creeping toward home.

Got anything?

[Az.Ump]

Mike,

We need to know where R1 was when BR touched first.

Paul

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Az.Ump

Mike,

We need to know where R1 was when BR touched first.

Paul

Standing on third base. Ruling should be the same (perhaps earlier, but the same) if she's standing anywhere else ... as long as she's stopped when BR touches first... but I digress.

[RKBUmp]

If the runner was on 3rd when batter/runner touched first and the pitcher did nothing but stand there with ball, runner at 3rd is out for look back violation, ball is dead, batter/runner returns to 1st.

[PSUchem]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Standing on third base. Ruling should be the same (perhaps earlier, but the same) if she's standing anywhere else ... as long as she's stopped when BR touches first... but I digress.

But if the runner on 3B is standing off of 3B at the time the BR touches 1B, she can ("immediately") advance home without violation. The placement of the runner and the timing are important.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

If the runner was on 3rd when batter/runner touched first and the pitcher did nothing but stand there with ball, runner at 3rd is out for look back violation, ball is dead, batter/runner returns to 1st.

Thanks... that's what I kept saying. Just what I needed - appreciate it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by PSUchem

But if the runner on 3B is standing off of 3B at the time the BR touches 1B, she can ("immediately") advance home without violation. The placement of the runner and the timing are important.

Yes, I know. The whispered "go" was 4-5 seconds after BR touched first.

Partner understands that LBR is nothing until pitcher catches and possesses the ball (and is off if she makes a play). I couldn't convince him to "turn on" LBR the moment BR touches first base on a walk though. If a runner is off at that moment, it's exactly like the pitcher catching the ball at that moment.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

... I couldn't convince him to "turn on" LBR the moment BR touches first base on a walk though. If a runner is off at that moment, it's exactly like the pitcher catching the ball at that moment.

This was changed a "few" years ago to add the BR touching 1B part. Before that, the LBR went into effect for R1 (in your scenario) as soon as F1 had possession and control in the circle.

Now, both conditions are required if there is a BR: possession and control by F1, and BR touching 1B (or being put out). But, once both conditions are in place, R1 had better be making a move and quick if she is off the base, and must stay on 3B if she was not off the base.

ASA 8-7-T

The “Look Back” rule shall be in effect for all runners when the ball is live, the batter-runner has touched first base or has been declared out, and the pitcher has possession and control of the ball within the pitcher’s circle....

ASA 8-7-T-2

Once the runner stops at a base for any reason, the runner will be declared out if leaving the base.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I couldn't convince him to "turn on" LBR the moment BR touches first base on a walk though.

Why do people have so much trouble with every way of becoming a BR is the same, expect dead ball like HBP.

[Tex]

If R1 was standing off 3rd base, 4-5 seconds after BR touched 1B, I would have already called R1 out.

[MD Longhorn]

No, she was standing ON third base, and took off at about 4-5 seconds. Immediate out. Partner didn't agree over a cold beer.

[UmpireErnie]

So is the LBR different in NCAA ball? Sadly we have no NCAA ball in The Last Frontier! Except on TV and you sure can't listen to the ccommentators in so far as rules are concerned.

I was watching one of the Super Regionals yesterday (forget which one now) where the BR overruns 1B by a good bit, turns left and starts back to 1B but takes her time. She never stops moving but always toward 1B. The ball is returned to the circle. Just before reaching 1B the BR breaks for 2B and is safe with no play.

Shouldn’t the BR be out for LBR violation as she was committed to 1B?

[PSUchem]

I don't do NCAA, but it does appear to be different:

12.24.1 When the pitcher takes possession of the ball within the pitcher’s circle, the batter-runner, after overrunning first base, must immediately return nonstop to first base or, if she does not retouch first base, must make an attempt to advance to second. If after passing the base, the runner is heading back toward first within the basepath extended, she may make a decision to go to either base. However, stepping beyond the extended basepath in foul territory commits the runner to first base while stepping beyond the basepath toward the second-base side commits the runner to second base.

[Rachel]

It is different in NCAA. The runner can do that.

[Rachel]

The question is did she turn left and stay in the 1st base path or did she turn left and go out of the 1st base path toward 2nd?