Potential for a big mess....

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

I am saying to call what you have......not to base your call on where you are on the field. Did the batter check thier swing.......Yes.......you give a safe sign.

No......ring up a strike.

I am not in the habit of making calls I am not sure of.

Joel

Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by youngump

Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

I would be sure and make a call.......I am also not in the habit of falling asleep on the ballfield. To make a blanket statement that if you were in C you would always call a no-swing is irresponsible.

Joel

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by youngump

Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

Not sure why you would ask this. I know (several of) your trainers, and know you have been told:

Never guess an out. If you didn't see an out, it must be safe.

Never guess a catch. If you didn't see a catch, it was no catch.

Never guess a strike. If you didn't see a strike, it must be a ball.

Never guess a swing. If you didn't see a swing, it must not have been one.

Never guess a batter out of the box, never guess an illegal pitch, etc, etc.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Not sure why you would ask this. I know (several of) your trainers, and know you have been told:

Never guess an out. If you didn't see an out, it must be safe.

Never guess a catch. If you didn't see a catch, it was no catch.

Never guess a strike. If you didn't see a strike, it must be a ball.

Never guess a swing. If you didn't see a swing, it must not have been one.

Never guess a batter out of the box, never guess an illegal pitch, etc, etc.

Yeah, I have at least most of those and perhaps I overstated what I meant to say. Still I don't think that's the same standard as saying that if you aren't sure, it's safe. If I'm working alone and we have a steal at second and I didn't manage to get close (maybe I had a runner at 3rd) and the ball beats the runner and F4/6 puts down the tag and the runner slides outside and I have to use my best judgment about whether she laid down the tag, I'm going to call her out.
Now maybe that's me not understanding or believing that I shouldn't guess an out (SRW may be around to tell me I'm doing it wrong any minute) but it seems like that's different from guessing an out.
Put alternatively, girl appears out at the plate and I'm not "sure", coach comes out to argue my safe call. "Coach, I believe you are right but was only 99% sure."

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by youngump

...If I'm working alone and we have a steal at second and I didn't manage to get close (maybe I had a runner at 3rd) and the ball beats the runner and F4/6 puts down the tag and the runner slides outside and I have to use my best judgment about whether she laid down the tag, I'm going to call her out....

I agree. If you're working alone and following the "if not sure, safe" guideline strictly, there would never be an out on a throw down at 2B with the tag to the outfield side. You do have to make a judgment; just don't tell the coach it was a guess!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

You don't have to be SURE that it was a swing... you have to be SURE that you didn't see a swing. If you saw one, it's a strike. If you are not positive you saw a swing, then you are SURE that you didn't see a swing, and rule no swing.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You don't have to be SURE that it was a swing... you have to be SURE that you didn't see a swing. If you saw one, it's a strike. If you are not positive you saw a swing, then you are SURE that you didn't see a swing, and rule no swing.

Those semantic gymnastics just don't work. You could say, I'm sure that I'm not sure I saw a swing. But you certainly can't say from that, that I'm sure I didn't see a swing.
But I don't disagree with what I think you were trying to say. If I don't see her offer, I'm not going to call it.
And to expand that a little since maybe I still don't understand. When I say in my judgment she swung, that's not the same thing as saying there is no possible doubt in my mind that she offered at that pitch. As Steve pointed out, there's a default call for many situations. If you don't see an out, safe. But that is different from I saw an out and there's still the smallest amount of doubt in my mind.