Potential for a big mess....

HugoTafurst

RKBUmp wrote
Got to ask, right or left handed batter? Right handed, she must have gone an awfully long way around to get rung up from C position.

GOT to ask???:rolleyes:
Why do you have to ask?????:rolleyes:

HugoTafurst

argodad wrote
In the event the call resulted in an easy tag out of a runner who thought she was forced to advance as a result of the apparent walk, you could use 10.2.m to return runners to their previous bases. Your call of BALL was reversed by the BU, which put the runners in jeopardy.

Exactly

HugoTafurst

topper wrote
So you're scoring a run and advancing the other runners?

??
I'm putting the runners back.
Unless something unusaul happened would they otherwise have advanced?
And the way I read Irish's response, he would do the same.

IRISHMAFIA

topper wrote
So you're scoring a run and advancing the other runners?

I have no idea where you came up with that as I certainly didn't say that.

Of course, that would have been the reaction if the BU said "NO".

KJUmp

robbie wrote
I hear that comment a lot. But why would one make such a blanket situation? What if she swung?

I understand the burdon of proof may be very high to make that call from C, but to say one would never call a strike from C is, in my opinion, irresponsible.

Totally agree.

Gulf Coast Blue

argodad wrote
If I'm the BU in C, I'm going to answer NO and signal safe in the <2 outs situation. However, your partner didn't do that.

In the event the call resulted in an easy tag out of a runner who thought she was forced to advance as a result of the apparent walk, you could use 10.2.m to return runners to their previous bases. Your call of BALL was reversed by the BU, which put the runners in jeopardy.

Bullcrap......you call what you see.

Joel

JEL

Gulf Coast Blue wrote
Bullcrap......you call what you see.

Joel

I remember one guy telling me "if" (while asking for a checked swing) "I point with my fist, call it a no swing, but if I point with an open hand call it a strike."

I told him don't even bother to ask because I am gonna tell you what I saw, not what you wanted me to see!

topper

IRISHMAFIA wrote
I have no idea where you came up with that as I certainly didn't say that.

Of course, that would have been the reaction if the BU said "NO".

I'm going to correct the count and move all runners to the base they would have been, IMO, had my call not been reversed.

__________________

So what did you mean?

KJUmp

JEL wrote
I remember one guy telling me "if" (while asking for a checked swing) "I point with my fist, call it a no swing, but if I point with an open hand call it a strike."

I told him don't even bother to ask because I am gonna tell you what I saw, not what you wanted me to see!

As you're required to do by rule.

IRISHMAFIA

topper wrote
__________________

So what did you mean?

To begin, my comment was generic. A simple statement that I would correct the situation as to off-set any negative affect the change of the call would have on either team.

If IMO runners are advancing based upon my "ball" call, they will be sent back to the base they occupied at the time of the pitch.

BTW, if the DC wants to argue the point, cite 5.2.1.f as the ball being dead (the moment I stepped from behind the plate to perform part of my duties as an umpire which drew my attention away from possible play) so runners cannot advance, nor be put out. (5.2.2.a-b)

TwoBits

Gulf Coast Blue wrote
Bullcrap......you call what you see.

Joel

But there better not be one doubt in your mind. You have a worse angle than the plate umpire.

I've made that call twice in 24 from the C with a right handed batter. Both times the situation was the same: high pitch, catcher stood up and blocked the PU's view, and I was looking directly at the end of the bat's barrel.

HugoTafurst

TwoBits wrote
But there better not be one doubt in your mind. (snip)

As there shouldn't be if you make the call from A or B. right?

TwoBits

HugoTafurst wrote
As there shouldn't be if you make the call from A or B. right?

Correct.

Gulf Coast Blue

TwoBits wrote
But there better not be one doubt in your mind. You have a worse angle than the plate umpire.

I've made that call twice in 24 from the C with a right handed batter. Both times the situation was the same: high pitch, catcher stood up and blocked the PU's view, and I was looking directly at the end of the bat's barrel.

I am saying to call what you have......not to base your call on where you are on the field. Did the batter check thier swing.......Yes.......you give a safe sign.

No......ring up a strike.

I am not in the habit of making calls I am not sure of.

Joel

youngump

Gulf Coast Blue wrote
I am saying to call what you have......not to base your call on where you are on the field. Did the batter check thier swing.......Yes.......you give a safe sign.

No......ring up a strike.

I am not in the habit of making calls I am not sure of.

Joel

Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

Gulf Coast Blue

youngump wrote
Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

I would be sure and make a call.......I am also not in the habit of falling asleep on the ballfield. To make a blanket statement that if you were in C you would always call a no-swing is irresponsible.

Joel

AtlUmpSteve

youngump wrote
Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

Not sure why you would ask this. I know (several of) your trainers, and know you have been told:

Never guess an out. If you didn't see an out, it must be safe.

Never guess a catch. If you didn't see a catch, it was no catch.

Never guess a strike. If you didn't see a strike, it must be a ball.

Never guess a swing. If you didn't see a swing, it must not have been one.

Never guess a batter out of the box, never guess an illegal pitch, etc, etc.

youngump

AtlUmpSteve wrote
Not sure why you would ask this. I know (several of) your trainers, and know you have been told:

Never guess an out. If you didn't see an out, it must be safe.

Never guess a catch. If you didn't see a catch, it was no catch.

Never guess a strike. If you didn't see a strike, it must be a ball.

Never guess a swing. If you didn't see a swing, it must not have been one.

Never guess a batter out of the box, never guess an illegal pitch, etc, etc.

Yeah, I have at least most of those and perhaps I overstated what I meant to say. Still I don't think that's the same standard as saying that if you aren't sure, it's safe. If I'm working alone and we have a steal at second and I didn't manage to get close (maybe I had a runner at 3rd) and the ball beats the runner and F4/6 puts down the tag and the runner slides outside and I have to use my best judgment about whether she laid down the tag, I'm going to call her out.
Now maybe that's me not understanding or believing that I shouldn't guess an out (SRW may be around to tell me I'm doing it wrong any minute) but it seems like that's different from guessing an out.
Put alternatively, girl appears out at the plate and I'm not "sure", coach comes out to argue my safe call. "Coach, I believe you are right but was only 99% sure."

Dakota

youngump wrote
...If I'm working alone and we have a steal at second and I didn't manage to get close (maybe I had a runner at 3rd) and the ball beats the runner and F4/6 puts down the tag and the runner slides outside and I have to use my best judgment about whether she laid down the tag, I'm going to call her out....

I agree. If you're working alone and following the "if not sure, safe" guideline strictly, there would never be an out on a throw down at 2B with the tag to the outfield side. You do have to make a judgment; just don't tell the coach it was a guess! 😉

MD Longhorn

RKBUmp wrote
Got to ask, right or left handed batter? Right handed, she must have gone an awfully long way around to get rung up from C position.

Are you implying that the umpire should change his opinion of an offer based on his position? That's asinine.