Potential for a big mess....

[JEL]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

Bullcrap......you call what you see.

Joel

I remember one guy telling me "if" (while asking for a checked swing) "I point with my fist, call it a no swing, but if I point with an open hand call it a strike."

I told him don't even bother to ask because I am gonna tell you what I saw, not what you wanted me to see!

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I have no idea where you came up with that as I certainly didn't say that.

Of course, that would have been the reaction if the BU said "NO".

I'm going to correct the count and move all runners to the base they would have been, IMO, had my call not been reversed.

__________________

So what did you mean?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by JEL

I remember one guy telling me "if" (while asking for a checked swing) "I point with my fist, call it a no swing, but if I point with an open hand call it a strike."

I told him don't even bother to ask because I am gonna tell you what I saw, not what you wanted me to see!

As you're required to do by rule.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

__________________

So what did you mean?

To begin, my comment was generic. A simple statement that I would correct the situation as to off-set any negative affect the change of the call would have on either team.

If IMO runners are advancing based upon my "ball" call, they will be sent back to the base they occupied at the time of the pitch.

BTW, if the DC wants to argue the point, cite 5.2.1.f as the ball being dead (the moment I stepped from behind the plate to perform part of my duties as an umpire which drew my attention away from possible play) so runners cannot advance, nor be put out. (5.2.2.a-b)

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

Bullcrap......you call what you see.

Joel

But there better not be one doubt in your mind. You have a worse angle than the plate umpire.

I've made that call twice in 24 from the C with a right handed batter. Both times the situation was the same: high pitch, catcher stood up and blocked the PU's view, and I was looking directly at the end of the bat's barrel.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

But there better not be one doubt in your mind. (snip)

As there shouldn't be if you make the call from A or B. right?

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

As there shouldn't be if you make the call from A or B. right?

Correct.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

But there better not be one doubt in your mind. You have a worse angle than the plate umpire.

I've made that call twice in 24 from the C with a right handed batter. Both times the situation was the same: high pitch, catcher stood up and blocked the PU's view, and I was looking directly at the end of the bat's barrel.

I am saying to call what you have......not to base your call on where you are on the field. Did the batter check thier swing.......Yes.......you give a safe sign.

No......ring up a strike.

I am not in the habit of making calls I am not sure of.

Joel

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

I am saying to call what you have......not to base your call on where you are on the field. Did the batter check thier swing.......Yes.......you give a safe sign.

No......ring up a strike.

I am not in the habit of making calls I am not sure of.

Joel

Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by youngump

Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

I would be sure and make a call.......I am also not in the habit of falling asleep on the ballfield. To make a blanket statement that if you were in C you would always call a no-swing is irresponsible.

Joel

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by youngump

Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

Not sure why you would ask this. I know (several of) your trainers, and know you have been told:

Never guess an out. If you didn't see an out, it must be safe.

Never guess a catch. If you didn't see a catch, it was no catch.

Never guess a strike. If you didn't see a strike, it must be a ball.

Never guess a swing. If you didn't see a swing, it must not have been one.

Never guess a batter out of the box, never guess an illegal pitch, etc, etc.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Not sure why you would ask this. I know (several of) your trainers, and know you have been told:

Never guess an out. If you didn't see an out, it must be safe.

Never guess a catch. If you didn't see a catch, it was no catch.

Never guess a strike. If you didn't see a strike, it must be a ball.

Never guess a swing. If you didn't see a swing, it must not have been one.

Never guess a batter out of the box, never guess an illegal pitch, etc, etc.

Yeah, I have at least most of those and perhaps I overstated what I meant to say. Still I don't think that's the same standard as saying that if you aren't sure, it's safe. If I'm working alone and we have a steal at second and I didn't manage to get close (maybe I had a runner at 3rd) and the ball beats the runner and F4/6 puts down the tag and the runner slides outside and I have to use my best judgment about whether she laid down the tag, I'm going to call her out.
Now maybe that's me not understanding or believing that I shouldn't guess an out (SRW may be around to tell me I'm doing it wrong any minute) but it seems like that's different from guessing an out.
Put alternatively, girl appears out at the plate and I'm not "sure", coach comes out to argue my safe call. "Coach, I believe you are right but was only 99% sure."

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by youngump

...If I'm working alone and we have a steal at second and I didn't manage to get close (maybe I had a runner at 3rd) and the ball beats the runner and F4/6 puts down the tag and the runner slides outside and I have to use my best judgment about whether she laid down the tag, I'm going to call her out....

I agree. If you're working alone and following the "if not sure, safe" guideline strictly, there would never be an out on a throw down at 2B with the tag to the outfield side. You do have to make a judgment; just don't tell the coach it was a guess!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Got to ask, right or left handed batter? Right handed, she must have gone an awfully long way around to get rung up from C position.

Are you implying that the umpire should change his opinion of an offer based on his position? That's asinine.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

You don't have to be SURE that it was a swing... you have to be SURE that you didn't see a swing. If you saw one, it's a strike. If you are not positive you saw a swing, then you are SURE that you didn't see a swing, and rule no swing.