Potential for a big mess....

[argodad]

Originally Posted by Andy

Situation:

HS V game - Bases loaded, 2 outs, 3-2 count on the batter. I am PU, pitch comes in just up and slightly inside, I call Ball 4, batter starts to swing, but stops. F2 asks me to go for help on the check swing, BU partner rings up the third strike for out number 3, inning over.

What got me thinking was what if this had happened with less than two out?
ie, ball 4, B/R heads to first, all other runners start advancing, then BU partner rings up the third strike....all the other runners are already off base and trotting toward the next base and would be easily picked off...do we let that play stand? I know what I would do, but would like to hear other opinions.

If I'm the BU in C, I'm going to answer NO and signal safe in the <2 outs situation. However, your partner didn't do that.

In the event the call resulted in an easy tag out of a runner who thought she was forced to advance as a result of the apparent walk, you could use 10.2.m to return runners to their previous bases. Your call of BALL was reversed by the BU, which put the runners in jeopardy.

[robbie]

Originally Posted by argodad

If I'm the BU in C, I'm going to answer NO and signal safe in the <2 outs situation. However, your partner didn't do that.

In the event the call resulted in an easy tag out of a runner who thought she was forced to advance as a result of the apparent walk, you could use 10.2.m to return runners to their previous bases. Your call of BALL was reversed by the BU, which put the runners in jeopardy.

I hear that comment a lot. But why would one make such a blanket situation? What if she swung?

I understand the burdon of proof may be very high to make that call from C, but to say one would never call a strike from C is, in my opinion, irresponsible.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by robbie

I hear that comment a lot. But why would one make such a blanket situation? What if she swung?

I understand the burdon of proof may be very high to make that call from C, but to say one would never call a strike from C is, in my opinion, irresponsible.

Robbie, I agree with you. But in the case of a delayed request with runners moving (or in the case in which it would become a dropped 3K) I'm going to lean strongly to a "no swing" call, especially from the C slot.

As an aside, I was watching a 2-ump NCAA game a couple of years ago when BU ruled a swing from C. The offensive coach questioned him, and he responded, "Coach, if she'd have made contact she would have hit it out of the park!"

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by robbie

I hear that comment a lot. But why would one make such a blanket situation? What if she swung?

I understand the burdon of proof may be very high to make that call from C, but to say one would never call a strike from C is, in my opinion, irresponsible.

Totally agree.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by argodad

In the event the call resulted in an easy tag out of a runner who thought she was forced to advance as a result of the apparent walk, you could use 10.2.m to return runners to their previous bases. Your call of BALL was reversed by the BU, which put the runners in jeopardy.

Exactly

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by argodad

If I'm the BU in C, I'm going to answer NO and signal safe in the <2 outs situation. However, your partner didn't do that.

In the event the call resulted in an easy tag out of a runner who thought she was forced to advance as a result of the apparent walk, you could use 10.2.m to return runners to their previous bases. Your call of BALL was reversed by the BU, which put the runners in jeopardy.

Bullcrap......you call what you see.

Joel

[JEL]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

Bullcrap......you call what you see.

Joel

I remember one guy telling me "if" (while asking for a checked swing) "I point with my fist, call it a no swing, but if I point with an open hand call it a strike."

I told him don't even bother to ask because I am gonna tell you what I saw, not what you wanted me to see!

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by JEL

I remember one guy telling me "if" (while asking for a checked swing) "I point with my fist, call it a no swing, but if I point with an open hand call it a strike."

I told him don't even bother to ask because I am gonna tell you what I saw, not what you wanted me to see!

As you're required to do by rule.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

Bullcrap......you call what you see.

Joel

But there better not be one doubt in your mind. You have a worse angle than the plate umpire.

I've made that call twice in 24 from the C with a right handed batter. Both times the situation was the same: high pitch, catcher stood up and blocked the PU's view, and I was looking directly at the end of the bat's barrel.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

But there better not be one doubt in your mind. (snip)

As there shouldn't be if you make the call from A or B. right?

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

As there shouldn't be if you make the call from A or B. right?

Correct.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

But there better not be one doubt in your mind. You have a worse angle than the plate umpire.

I've made that call twice in 24 from the C with a right handed batter. Both times the situation was the same: high pitch, catcher stood up and blocked the PU's view, and I was looking directly at the end of the bat's barrel.

I am saying to call what you have......not to base your call on where you are on the field. Did the batter check thier swing.......Yes.......you give a safe sign.

No......ring up a strike.

I am not in the habit of making calls I am not sure of.

Joel

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

I am saying to call what you have......not to base your call on where you are on the field. Did the batter check thier swing.......Yes.......you give a safe sign.

No......ring up a strike.

I am not in the habit of making calls I am not sure of.

Joel

Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by youngump

Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

I would be sure and make a call.......I am also not in the habit of falling asleep on the ballfield. To make a blanket statement that if you were in C you would always call a no-swing is irresponsible.

Joel

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by youngump

Really? And what if you're not sure? I doubt you'd really just refuse to make a call on a checked swing. In my mind some calls are best guess if you're not sure, blocked out on a pitch perhaps. And others where you need to be sure, illegal pitch. The key difference usually being that in many cases you have to make some call.

Not sure why you would ask this. I know (several of) your trainers, and know you have been told:

Never guess an out. If you didn't see an out, it must be safe.

Never guess a catch. If you didn't see a catch, it was no catch.

Never guess a strike. If you didn't see a strike, it must be a ball.

Never guess a swing. If you didn't see a swing, it must not have been one.

Never guess a batter out of the box, never guess an illegal pitch, etc, etc.