help with getting into position

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

In theory that is good except when second baseman is playing super deep (which some do), if you go parallel to the line without angling somewhat toward 2B, you will be too far away from the play to be creditable. In these instances, you need to get in closer. Dave

That would be true if you allow F4 to dictate where you stand. I don't, and it isn't required that you do. "Behind" F4 is behind the imaginary line you might draw between F3 and F4, and far enough to her side that you are more than a step and a leap away. Our positioning is based on softball players playing in reasonable positions, and her decision to play where knowledgable players wouldn't shouldn't affect us.

So, when she gets that deep, I move forward and into the hole; and still move directly parallel to the base line on the steal.

[Rachel]

I agree with Steve. The key is to not get in the way of the 2nd baseman when they field a ball. You move farther away from them as you move in.

[shipwreck]

I'd hate to see my evaluation if I started anywhere to the front side of a fielder. Dave

[luvthegame]

Shouldn't be bad if it was an NCAA evaluation.

What's the diference (distraction wise) with an umpire starting in front of a fielder or a runner running in front of a fielder?

If I were a fielder...i would rather have someone stationary until the ball is hit (at which time they are trying to get OUT of my way) in front of me rather than a runner moving towards me as I am trying to field the ball?

If fielders take unusual positions (depths) the umpire should adjust to an unusual starting position that will allow them do do their job and cover their responsibilities.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Y'all don't know what "deep" is until you work men's A or B slowpitch.

Try F4 & F6 about 20'-30' beyond the baseline with F3 about 15'-25' behind 1B. And then F7 inserts himself about 20' behind 2B. (and remember, there is stealing there, too).

I agree with Steve. This method is basically to satisfy the rules as they pertain to an umpire being hit by a batted ball which has yet to pass an infielder other than the pitcher.

It is a good mechanic. Recently, I've seen umpires come back from a NUS and using this mechanic, end up literally standing forward of a fielder. I'm not talking about a couple steps in front 15'-20' to the side, but about 4 steps in front less than 10' away.

While standing behind an imaginary line satisfies the rules, an umpire still needs to make sure they are in a position avoid getting involed in a possible play. Avoiding interference doesn't mean crap if you have a player run over you or take a shot by a batted ball.

And, like others have mentioned, I, too, will give a call @ 2B a higher priority in positioning than 1B for the same reasons.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

Shouldn't be bad if it was an NCAA evaluation.

What's the diference (distraction wise) with an umpire starting in front of a fielder or a runner running in front of a fielder?

The umpire is there before the pitch.

If I were a fielder...i would rather have someone stationary until the ball is hit (at which time they are trying to get OUT of my way) in front of me rather than a runner moving towards me as I am trying to field the ball?

There is no comparison.

As an umpire, I will not work in the hole. I will do everything I can to be a step behind and just off a shoulder. Once the fielder takes that first step, I've pivoted out of their way. I have found when two people are moving and trying to avoid each other, half the time it almost becomes impossible to avoid each other. I believe this is one of the reasons retired runners are NOT required to abandon their base path.

A runner is a participant and, as a fielder, you know their presence cannot keep you from making a play. The umpire though, well, I don't believe any fielder will, no should they, accept the need to navigate around an umpire to make a play on a batted ball.

If fielders take unusual positions (depths) the umpire should adjust to an unusual starting position that will allow them do do their job and cover their responsibilities.

AFAIC, it is their game on their field. IMO, the umpire should adjust to them and if that means not getting your preferred position, you do the best you can from the position you can get.

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The umpire is there before the pitch.

So is the runner



There is no comparison.

As an umpire, I will not work in the hole. I will do everything I can to be a step behind and just off a shoulder. Once the fielder takes that first step, I've pivoted out of their way. I have found when two people are moving and trying to avoid each other, half the time it almost becomes impossible to avoid each other. I believe this is one of the reasons retired runners are NOT required to abandon their base path.

A runner is a participant and, as a fielder, you know their presence cannot keep you from making a play. The umpire though, well, I don't believe any fielder will, no should they, accept the need to navigate around an umpire to make a play on a batted ball.

Who is making the fielder navigate? Those that can move....won't interfere.
See it all the time!


AFAIC, it is their game on their field. IMO, the umpire should adjust to them and if that means not getting your preferred position, you do the best you can from the position you can get.

Doesn't matter in this case who's game it suposedly is...both have jobs to do (and generally I know who is gonna get fired if they screw up). The good ones can git er done!!

[IRISHMAFIA]

So is the runner

No, the runner is on 1B, not standing in F4's line of sight.

Who is making the fielder navigate? Those that can move....won't interfere. See it all the time!

That's right, you work that real slow defensive game. Nevermind

Originally Posted by luvthegame

Doesn't matter in this case who's game it suposedly is...both have jobs to do (and generally I know who is gonna get fired if they screw up). The good ones can git er done!!

I'm more worried about the game I'm working. If someone is that manic about where I am standing as to not interfere with the play, that's their problem. I don't need to work their games.

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]No, the runner is on 1B, not standing in F4's line of sight.

The runners in most of my games now a days lead off they don't stand on 1b...LOL
And the umpires can be about in the same line of sight...and not moving....not a distraction

That's right, you work that real slow defensive game. Nevermind
(remember what happens when you assume?) lol

Yep...the slow games....and then there are the Supers with BeP, The Majors with BiP and the Majors FP with TW along with some very fine NCAA officials.... Very slow games???.....


I'm more worried about the game I'm working. If someone is that manic about where I am standing as to not interfere with the play, that's their problem. I don't need to work their games.

I am talking about the umpires (I've seen it done) who can stand where THEY need to and NOT interfere. Most of them are OK working their games.

[IRISHMAFIA]

The runners in most of my games now a days lead off they don't stand on 1b...LOL

Prior to the pitch? Only if you aren't doing your job.

And the umpires can be about in the same line of sight...and not moving....not a distraction

Yeah, they are a distraction. As a player, I have stopped a game until an umpire moved, twice. As a UIC, I have been asked to have umpire's move by players, FP & SP.

Yep...the slow games....and then there are the Supers with BeP,

You mean the same guy who pulled me aside after a game in OKC and told me I was moving too much behind the plate after avoiding the pitch, told me to stand where I wanted and stay there. Yet at the subsequent UIC clinic NUS members had us outside behind the Biltmore telling us to always position yourself behind the catcher. Pretty rough trying to survive any evaluation when you are getting conflicting authoritive direction.

The Majors with BiP

Been there, done that. Like him, but didn't care for the manner in which he introduced new mechanics at the majors.

and the Majors FP with TW along with some very fine NCAA officials.... Very slow games???.....

Never had the pleasure, but if I wanted to do baseball, I wouldn't have walked away from it after 22 years.

Originally Posted by luvthegame

I am talking about the umpires (I've seen it done) who can stand where THEY need to and NOT interfere. Most of them are OK working their games.

Hot damn! Finally got the formatting correct

However, that didn't keep you from taking a comment out of context. I thought I was clearly referring to your noted fear of termination and whomever could effect such a thing. Apparently not.

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Prior to the pitch? Only if you aren't doing your job.



Yeah, they are a distraction. As a player, I have stopped a game until an umpire moved, twice. As a UIC, I have been asked to have umpire's move by players, FP & SP.



You mean the same guy who pulled me aside after a game in OKC and told me I was moving too much behind the plate after avoiding the pitch, told me to stand where I wanted and stay there. Yet at the subsequent UIC clinic NUS members had us outside behind the Biltmore telling us to always position yourself behind the catcher. Pretty rough trying to survive any evaluation when you are getting conflicting authoritive direction.



Been there, done that. Like him, but didn't care for the manner in which he introduced new mechanics at the majors.



Never had the pleasure, but if I wanted to do baseball, I wouldn't have walked away from it after 22 years.



Hot damn! Finally got the formatting correct

However, that didn't keep you from taking a comment out of context. I thought I was clearly referring to your noted fear of termination and whomever could effect such a thing. Apparently not.

Talk about formatting? I don't know of anyone more adept at cutting and pasting only what they need to...to not address their assertions or assumptions...but to CYA and redirect their agenda...Delaware is lucky to have such an expert!!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

Talk about formatting? I don't know of anyone more adept at cutting and pasting only what they need to...to not address their assertions or assumptions...but to CYA and redirect their agenda...Delaware is lucky to have such an expert!!

And yet you still haven't addressed the issue of worrying about being fired

[luvthegame]

And you haven't addressed 3-4 of your inaccurate comments.

But...just to play along (you have chopped up the posts and redirected your comments and the topic so much I had to go back and check the context).......alas...simple enough....if the umpire screws up enough they will get fired, they are held accountable in managed programs... If the player screws up they don't get fired....so I am gonna do and go where I need to go to get my job done...that includes sometimes inside a fielder. Never...never..repeat never...had a complaint about it at the NCAA level.

And the games are pretty damn fast!!

[wadeintothem]

Generally, when in B, if you cheat, cheat towards 2B.

But read your players and your game. Some catchers (especially male) throw nonstop to 1B and you may need to cheat over that way - ESPECIALLY when they are very good at it and who will try it.

Same thing when in "C", I've had a men's catcher pick off players from 2B as a hobby. You end up cheating towards 2B.. no one was stealing on that type of catcher anyway and you had to be ready because the pick off throw was coming and it was going to be good and close.

Know the game.. with two outs, stealing is less likely, so you may cheat slightly towards a potential pick off or maybe not cheat at all.

IMO, female catchers are less likely to either be good at pick offs or aggressively try it - but there are exceptions. So get to know those catchers that are good at it.

If you have a big fat girl #8 batter on 1B... no cheating required. For what?

If you have quickie lil skinny slapper with no outs get to 1B.. you know she's going. Cheat to 2b a lilbit.

Steal signs if you can. That is helpful.

Some teams are very aggressive so you know the coach is predisposed to sending runners.

Well you get the idea.

Be a student of the game.

Know the count, know the outs, know your players and coaches, and know what is going on and adjust slightly accordingly.

Know what you will do "if" before each play. Keep your head in the game.

[Rachel]

I agree w/ Wade. Read the game and make the calls. Also know where Rome is and do as they do