position

[Illinois blue]

where is the best position to be when right fielder is making an out throw to first?

[Little Jimmy]

Depends. I assume your in the A position. If the ball got there on a relatively slow role I probably could get to a decent position in the infield toward the pitcher. Anything tight toward the line I'm staying in dead ball territory and moving a bit toward the dugout area. And hoping my partner will pick up the runner if there's an overthrow and the runner advances.

[mcrowder]

You're trying to get the same angle on the throw that you have for any other play. Only difference is - you have to decide if you can get to the infield and get your angle without getting in anyone's way, or you have to take this on the outside. Infield is extremely preferred, due to possible subsequent actions.

If you're on the outside (in foul ground, in other words), be extremely prepared for your sprint to the sweetspot if the ball gets away (again, avoiding fielders and BR). This can be a tough one if there's a play at 1B and then a play at 2nd after the overthrow.

[shipwreck]

We always discuss this before the game. BU will stay in foul ground on a sharp hit that has a possibility of getting a throw to first. PU will then take any subsequent action on the batter/runner all the way to second and third and BU will rotate to home. Dave

[mo99]

I cover that situation in my pregame with my partner.If the BU is making that call in foul territory,I as a PU,am already trailing the play and prepared to cover second base in the event the throw to first gets by.The BU will then cover the plate if play would continue there.This is of course only with no runners on base.

Jeff
NCAA Umpire
NFHS Umpire
ASA Umpire

[Illinois blue]

Thank you guys, I appreciate the advice

[mcrowder]

True, true. But with runners on, you don't have that option - blue needs to be prepared for it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Illiniois blue
where is the best position to be when right fielder is making an out throw to first?

Inside

[whiskers_ump]

Not arguing with Mike here, but I like to go to the outside
and make the coverage as Dave described in his post. Agree
also that it should be covered in umpire to umpire pre game.

[wadeintothem]

I like to be towards the pitcher side (corner) of 1B about 4-5 ft away. So basically a diagonal view towards 1B between pitch circle and 1B.. I move in from A on this play and am ready to go to 2B.

and I got BR all the way to 3B which is covered in pregame.

[Edited by wadeintothem on Apr 22nd, 2005 at 01:45 AM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Not arguing with Mike here, but I like to go to the outside
and make the coverage as Dave described in his post. Agree
also that it should be covered in umpire to umpire pre game.

If you are in foul ground toward the outfield side of the base, you must turn with the ball to see the play which may very well mean you can miss an obstruction, interference, missed base, etc. depending on how long you stay with the ball.

If you are outside toward home, you are going to have to make a call from the back side of the play, in line with the play should the ball get away and may end up doing a dance trying to avoid the errant throw.

In both cases, you will never be able to get into position for a call at 2B should it become necessary.

If you get inside, you can have the ball, runner, base and defender all within your scope, not be in a vulnerable position should a throw get away or missed and be in great position to siddle over to 2B for a call if necessary.

If the ball gets by 1B and the throw is coming from near the first base line, you simply move to the 11 o'clock position of the circle. This removes you from the throwing lane and places you in perfect position to make a call.

Of course, JMHO,

[rhsc]

The clinics around here are putting the BU between first and second, just far enough away from second baseman. In this sitch BU would move to inside the base line turning towards first. Depending on sitch with other BR would influence action after that. If BR on first in this sitch, turn toward second, PU has first if throw-back comes there instead of trying to get the lead BR. If BR on second or third BU has first and second, PU has third and home. Thats how we do it. I have seen different styles, one draw-back here is the BU sometimes has to turn his back on the ball; better to turn your back on the ball than the BR. ASA slow pitch only.

[WestMichBlue]

Fastpitch mechanic.

Both the ASA and NFHS manuals state that the preferred position for calls at 1B is INSIDE. However, both state that the “Foul Ground Theory” should be used as an exception when you can’t get inside. ”Only on balls hit to the first-base player, the second-base player extreme left, or to a short right field, where the throw is coming to the first-base player from near the foul line, the umpire should stay outside the diamond in foul territory and move up the line to make the call. “

The NFHS manual goes on to describe several of the problems that can occur from this position – many of which Mike identified in his post. However, the manual states that “many of these difficulties can be overcome by not crowding the play. Maintain your distance from the base if possible for freedom of movement and peripheral vision.”

The obvious problem is the difficulty in covering 2B if the ball gets past F3 and the B-R advances. This must be covered in your pre-game. As PU, if I see my partner move into foul territory I will break off my “follow position” from 1B line to move closer to the pitcher’s plate. (Very similar to your movement when you have a runner at 1B and you may have to make a call at 3B.) If the ball gets away, the PU should go through the pitcher’s circle to make the call at 2B.

Though in theory covering 2B may be an issue, on the field it will seldom occur. Because of the angle of the throw coming to 1B, any overthrow is going right at the catcher. Thus the opportunity for the B-R to advance is minimal.

WMB

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by rhsc
The clinics around here are putting the BU between first and second, just far enough away from second baseman. In this sitch BU would move to inside the base line turning towards first. Depending on sitch with other BR would influence action after that. If BR on first in this sitch, turn toward second, PU has first if throw-back comes there instead of trying to get the lead BR. If BR on second or third BU has first and second, PU has third and home. Thats how we do it. I have seen different styles, one draw-back here is the BU sometimes has to turn his back on the ball; better to turn your back on the ball than the BR. ASA slow pitch only.

Of course, the BU must turn their back to the ball. The BU's responsibility on a base hit to the outfield is to watch the runner(s) touch the bases. You try to pick-up the ball between those instances you need to watch the base.

As one gains experience, s/he will get a sense of timing during the play and know when to glance this way or that to watch the runners and locate the ball.

[Dakota]

The foul ground theory is a compromise - a way to call the play without interfering with it.

But, it is a compromise.

The original question was "where is the best position to be..."

The answer is - inside.

If you can't get inside, then use the foul ground theory. But, it is not "the best position."