help with getting into position

[shipwreck]

It seems like I am not getting into the best position when a girl is stealing. This happens most often when I am positioned on the fielder's left shoulder. If she gets her lead and then heads back to her base, I go along with her to be in best position in case of a throw back. My problem is if she is stealing and gets a good jump. I am in a set postion at the time of pitch. She gets a running start. By the time she is approaching the base she is trying to steal, I am too far behind her, or if I am close, I am still moving to make the call. What tips do you have to be able to get there and set up before she does? Should I always start on the fielder's right shoulder to be able to get a head start, despite what the umpire manual says, or any other help would be appreciated. Maybe I should head toward the advanced base first, and if she isn't stealing, could follow her back in case of a pickoff attempt. I am by no means slow, it's just I seem to be behind the play too often. Dave

[MNBlue]

The first thing I do when I have a runner on 1B is to make a judgement about her speed. I then position myself as far away from 2B as possible but close enough to beat her to 2B on a steal. The faster the runner, the farther away from 1B I set up. Most of the time, I am 20 - 25' off the foul line.

It's been suggested to me that I start just off the shoulder of F4, 10' back. I believe that F4 usually has a different agenda than I do and her positioning has very little to do with calling runners out on tag plays. Therefore, I set up where I believe that I am in position to best do my job.

I AM NOT, by any means, fast. However, unless I completely don't get a jump on a steal, I am always in position at 2B. I think it has much to do with desire, position, feel for the game.

I work between pitches, just like you. I am, however, willing to sacrifice distance on the pick at 1B in order to get into position at 2B for the steal. Sometimes I don't get back to the line on a pick at 1B, but it is rare.

[NCASAUmp]

I'm curious to know what your set position is like. A set position should not encumber you so much that it takes you out of the play. Instead, a good set position will get you READY for the play.

What exactly do you do when you go set? Are your hands on your knees when you go set? Do you find that your set position requires an extra motion or two (such as standing up straight) before you start running?

Yes, yes, I am a slow pitch guy. But we still go set, too, when on the bases and behind the plate. And we also have stealing in SP.

Getting "set" does not mean getting stuck. It means getting set up to get a good start once the ball is in play.

[shipwreck]

My getting set is with my hands on my thighs. I do this right before the pitcher starts her pitch. Is this incorrect? Also, if time allows, I get set like that at a base before a play happens. Is this OK? Dave

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

My getting set is with my hands on my thighs. I do this right before the pitcher starts her pitch. Is this incorrect? Also, if time allows, I get set like that at a base before a play happens. Is this OK? Dave

I think if you're using your hands to support your weight, you're adding more motions than you need in order to get moving. You're pushing up off of your thighs, and you're raising up before you can even begin to move.

In slow pitch and fast pitch, there's no need to get set in this way. Keep your feet shoulder-width apart and parallel to the baseline. Bend your knees slightly and place your weight slightly more on the balls of your feet than on your heels. If you lean forward, lean only slightly forward, don't bend forward. You should be able to spring to the side, one way or the other.

Think of how a good shortstop gets ready on the pitch. They're not leaning forward or bending over, are they? No, instead, they're mostly upright with their feet the way I described above. They're not supporting their weight by putting their hands on their thighs. They're ready to spring in any direction.

Putting your hands on your thighs is not expressly forbidden, but if it takes you out of the play by adding more motions before you're moving, it's not a good idea. However, I did see a UIC this weekend specifically address this with a fellow umpire who was having problems similar to what you were describing.

That's pretty much all I've got. I'm a SP guy, but the set position between SP and FP are exactly the same. Anyone else want to bring up suggestions? Preferably someone who comes from a more FP-oriented world?

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I am in a set postion at the time of pitch.

I agree with others that it might be good to take a look at your "set position". Mine is not the norm, with one foot slightly in front of the other, knees bent and only slightly bent at the waist; almost the way runners start in longer races and, if I need to go to 1st or 2nd, making the first two steps big ones.

When running to second, I do not run directly toward second base, but to a postion that will be 10-15 feet on the outfield side of 2nd. That point is about two steps shorter than the other and also I have a better angle.

[jmkupka]

In my area, more emphasis is placed on being there for the pickoff throw. We know we have to get to a position to make a call at 2B, but the snap throw has to be anticipated (cheated for), requiring as little movement as necessary.
Fortunately, I'm still quick, so I do cheat to 1B.

I also have that 1-2 step thing going on during the windmill. Huge difference, no more blown calf muscles, up to speed real fast.

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

In my area, more emphasis is placed on being there for the pickoff throw. We know we have to get to a position to make a call at 2B, but the snap throw has to be anticipated (cheated for), requiring as little movement as necessary.
Fortunately, I'm still quick, so I do cheat to 1B.

I also have that 1-2 step thing going on during the windmill. Huge difference, no more blown calf muscles, up to speed real fast.

I thought moving during the windup was only allowed while on the line with nobody on base. I have always been taught to be set with runner/runners on base. Dave

[Andy]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

In my area, more emphasis is placed on being there for the pickoff throw....

I certainly don't wish to downplay what is taught in your area, but you may want to consider this and politely ask the powers that be in your neighborhood:

Which play happens more often - the pickoff attempt at first or the steal of second?

If you work between pitches, you can position yourself closer to second base with a runner on first. Once the pitch is made and the runner is not stealing, take a step or two toward first base, then you are already moving in that direction if the catcher makes a pickoff throw and you will be in a decent position to see the play.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by Andy

I certainly don't wish to downplay what is taught in your area, but you may want to consider this and politely ask the powers that be in your neighborhood:

Which play happens more often - the pickoff attempt at first or the steal of second?

If you work between pitches, you can position yourself closer to second base with a runner on first. Once the pitch is made and the runner is not stealing, take a step or two toward first base, then you are already moving in that direction if the catcher makes a pickoff throw and you will be in a decent position to see the play.

Two-person mechanics is all about priorities. In the world of priorities, it is more crucial that I get the call correct at 2B because that could mean a runner winds up in scoring position. (Of course, we want to get all of our calls correct, but sometimes we have to choose where the bulk of our attention is paid.)

The call at 1B is lower priority for two reasons: 1) they already occupy the base & 2) they're not in scoring position.

For me, the key to getting into position at 2B for the steal is to work directly parallel with the baseline from your starting position. If you take a path towards the bag, that's gonna cost you a step or two because it's slightly farther to get to the same angle. (Who said high school geometry wouldn't come in handy someday?)

One caveat: look out for a second base-player who takes a shallow angle to a backup position (too many of which do).

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

Two-person mechanics is all about priorities. In the world of priorities, it is more crucial that I get the call correct at 2B because that could mean a runner winds up in scoring position. (Of course, we want to get all of our calls correct, but sometimes we have to choose where the bulk of our attention is paid.)

The call at 1B is lower priority for two reasons: 1) they already occupy the base & 2) they're not in scoring position.

For me, the key to getting into position at 2B for the steal is to work directly parallel with the baseline from your starting position. If you take a path towards the bag, that's gonna cost you a step or two because it's slightly farther to get to the same angle. (Who said high school geometry wouldn't come in handy someday?)

One caveat: look out for a second base-player who takes a shallow angle to a backup position (too many of which do).

I believe Andy is seeing the priority as where is your most likely play - same approach I have. In a 2-ump game and in the B position, I'm reading F3 and F4 before determining my starting position. With F3 way up and F4 not indicating a pick-off is coming, I'm 35-25 - more toward 2B. If a pick-off looks likely, I'm 25, maybe even 20 ft from the right field line and as close as I can get (depending on where F4 is positioned).

[argodad]

Originally Posted by Steve M

I believe Andy is seeing the priority as where is your most likely play - same approach I have. In a 2-ump game and in the B position, I'm reading F3 and F4 before determining my starting position. With F3 way up and F4 not indicating a pick-off is coming, I'm 35-25 - more toward 2B. If a pick-off looks likely, I'm 25, maybe even 20 ft from the right field line and as close as I can get (depending on where F4 is positioned).

Good tips, Steve. Once I get back on the field with a new leg, I'll have to use every trick I can to compensate and get to calling position more quickly. The good news is that I was so slow before the amputation that nobody will notice a difference.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by argodad

Good tips, Steve. Once I get back on the field with a new leg, I'll have to use every trick I can to compensate and get to calling position more quickly. The good news is that I was so slow before the amputation that nobody will notice a difference.

Sounds like a few umpires I know, except they have no excuse.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

The call at 1B is lower priority for two reasons: 1) they already occupy the base & 2) they're not in scoring position.

Here's three more!!

3) As others have indicated, it more apparent when it is coming,
4) It is a less prevalent play; more steals than pickoff attempts, and
5) You really can get help from the PU on the pickoff (a mandated go for help in the NCAA, if asked), with angle, when you cannot get credible help (nor should you ever ask) at second.

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

Two-person mechanics is all about priorities. In the world of priorities, it is more crucial that I get the call correct at 2B because that could mean a runner winds up in scoring position. (Of course, we want to get all of our calls correct, but sometimes we have to choose where the bulk of our attention is paid.)

The call at 1B is lower priority for two reasons: 1) they already occupy the base & 2) they're not in scoring position.

For me, the key to getting into position at 2B for the steal is to work directly parallel with the baseline from your starting position. If you take a path towards the bag, that's gonna cost you a step or two because it's slightly farther to get to the same angle. (Who said high school geometry wouldn't come in handy someday?)

One caveat: look out for a second base-player who takes a shallow angle to a backup position (too many of which do).

In theory that is good except when second baseman is playing super deep (which some do), if you go parallel to the line without angling somewhat toward 2B, you will be too far away from the play to be creditable. In these instances, you need to get in closer. Dave