(From 2020)While Smokey Gets Another Cold One....

[AtlUmpSteve]

SteveM, in our state (Georgia), you don't have to register ASA through an Association, the Zone or District; particularly if you feel they don't represent or support you effectively. Umpires can register from another area, or as independents, and are eligible for all assignments handled by the State staff. In that way, the State UIC (and his designees, when he delegates) can also use those identified as qualified umpires when desired, even if the local doesn't promote them.

We also, like Mike, require a minimum number of ASA assignments (with a minimum number of local assignments, too, if applicable), to make sure the umpires are supporting their local and ASA, not just sitting back and getting cherry assignments, while working XYZ ball. So, it isn't a one way street, allowing the umpires to thumb their noses at the local needs.

If that opportunity doesn't exist in PA, perhaps you could suggest it to Luau, who might be able to start a program like that.

[wadeintothem]

As I understand it, there is blanket policy of national opportunity in PA.

Which should be a violation of ASA code. That should be grounds for dismissal.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

As I understand it, there is blanket policy of national opportunity in PA.

Which should be a violation of ASA code. That should be grounds for dismissal.

Wade,
That's not quite right - other districts, under other commissioners, have sent quite a few umpires to various nationals. If I've given the impression that it's state wide, I've given the wrong impression. I've only spoken about district 4 in Pa.

**nothing quite like hitting enter and then realizing you've fat-fingered something. So I edited and corrected.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Wade,
That's not quite right - other districts, under other commissioners, have sent quite a few umpires to various nationals. If I've given the impression that it's state wide, I've given the wrong impression. I've only spoken about district 4 in Pa.

**nothing quite like hitting enter and then realizing you've fat-fingered something. So I edited and corrected.

Well thats good. It should be even easier to get rid of that person then. It is is terrible that that commish is being allowed to treat ASA Umpires in such a contemptuous manner.

[bkbjones]

I had sworn off replying on this board but saw this thread and had to say something.

It doesn't just make me mad, it pi$$e$ me off when umpires take OUR organization's training and go use it to help train others and/or to use their wares in LL, NSA, USSSA or some other organization.

I am loyal to a fault (apparently to the chagrin of a few) to ASA and to our local Seattle association. Our local association deal with three groups: ASA, NFHS and NCAA (and JUCO ball, which up here uses NCAA rules and mechanics). We have some of the best training around. It was my pleasure to have been a part of that. I think we did ok judging from those who have had national assignments and performed at an extremely high level over the past six years. I can't and wouldn't claim full or even much of the partial credit for that, but am grateful I used to be part of it.

The ones who pi$$ me off, though, are the ones who are, at best, half-a$$ed umpires who are not only stealing our money by working for other associations but stealing our time and attention by taking our training then working for some other outfit.

[bestviewofall]

John,

What if an umpire was trained in another organization and took those skills into yours and became successful there?

Smokey

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

I had sworn off replying on this board but saw this thread and had to say something.

It doesn't just make me mad, it pi$$e$ me off when umpires take OUR organization's training and go use it to help train others and/or to use their wares in LL, NSA, USSSA or some other organization.

I am loyal to a fault (apparently to the chagrin of a few) to ASA and to our local Seattle association. Our local association deal with three groups: ASA, NFHS and NCAA (and JUCO ball, which up here uses NCAA rules and mechanics). We have some of the best training around. It was my pleasure to have been a part of that. I think we did ok judging from those who have had national assignments and performed at an extremely high level over the past six years. I can't and wouldn't claim full or even much of the partial credit for that, but am grateful I used to be part of it.

The ones who pi$$ me off, though, are the ones who are, at best, half-a$$ed umpires who are not only stealing our money by working for other associations but stealing our time and attention by taking our training then working for some other outfit.

Did they have to compensate the organization for that time and attention?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

I had sworn off replying on this board but saw this thread and had to say something.

It doesn't just make me mad, it pi$$e$ me off when umpires take OUR organization's training and go use it to help train others and/or to use their wares in LL, NSA, USSSA or some other organization.

I am loyal to a fault (apparently to the chagrin of a few) to ASA and to our local Seattle association. Our local association deal with three groups: ASA, NFHS and NCAA (and JUCO ball, which up here uses NCAA rules and mechanics). We have some of the best training around. It was my pleasure to have been a part of that. I think we did ok judging from those who have had national assignments and performed at an extremely high level over the past six years. I can't and wouldn't claim full or even much of the partial credit for that, but am grateful I used to be part of it.

The ones who pi$$ me off, though, are the ones who are, at best, half-a$$ed umpires who are not only stealing our money by working for other associations but stealing our time and attention by taking our training then working for some other outfit.

John....here is another take on this.

Would you expect to pay your tuition and go to college and, upon graduation, have the college (or university) tell you that now that you have completed your studies, you can only use the information you obtained from them working for this one company for the rest of your life? Of course not. Upon graduation you are free to seek employment with whoever you choose.

I have never attended an ASA clinic where I did not have to pay a fee. The fee entitles me to the information to use however I see fit.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

John....here is another take on this.

Would you expect to pay your tuition and go to college and, upon graduation, have the college (or university) tell you that now that you have completed your studies, you can only use the information you obtained from them working for this one company for the rest of your life? Of course not. Upon graduation you are free to seek employment with whoever you choose.

Actually, there are programs like this around the country, but that would be the exception.

I have never attended an ASA clinic where I did not have to pay a fee. The fee entitles me to the information to use however I see fit.

I have never given a clinic (locally) where the umpire was asked to pay. And just out of curiosity, what would you consider the fair market value of such information? Would a discounted rate demand some level of reciprocity on the umpire's behalf?

What if the umpire's association mandates attendence to a particular clinic? Whom would be financially responsible for such a clinic? If paid for by the association, would the umpire still be free to take this information elsewhere for their personal benefit?

We could go on with this forever.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I think the college/university argument doesn't hold true in many cases. It may depend upon who's paying the tuition.

In many cases, a student's parents foot the bill and/or are augmented by student loans.

In some cases, a student may have received an outside scholarship, usually a fixed amount and small percentage of the overall cost, which carries no reciprocity stipulations.

Some students are fortunate to receive academic/scholastic or sports scholarships which may cover either a small or large percentage of the bill.

Then there are many programs into which a student may enroll which will require some amount of "payback" on behalf of the student. The military colleges and ROTC programs are the most common.

Then there may be incentives from specific companies which may agree to send someone for a higher degree in return for a promise of "x" years of staying on with that particular firm.

My masters degree was largely paid for by the company I was employed by at the time. They covered tuition and a portion of the expenses for books. I needed to get myself to the classes and receive a pre-determined grade for the course(s). There were no strings in this arrangement and I could leave to seek employment elsewhere at any time.

Some auto dealerships offer [maybe not any more?] 3-5 year extended training and education for mechanics to become certified in various aspects of auto repair and maintenance in return for the employee's promise to stay there for some amount of time after training.

Now, all that being said, I don't believe there is a requirement relative to ASA training that someone, anyone, can't use whatever they learn at any ASA clinics to work other associations. I do understand the loyalty aspect of "dance with who brung ya", but I still maintain, without having statistical evidence, that all the alphabet softball associations are probably 80% the same and 20% different. Maybe it's even closer to 90-10, I don't know.

In my 30 years as a player, I've only ever played ASA ball. That started in the Air Force and continued in various leagues I played in after I got out. The couple of UICs who recruited me to become an umpire were both ASA guys. In fact, until I became an ASA umpire, I was naively unaware that there even were other associations. I'd never heard of USSSA, NSA, etc. I'd heard of Little League and Babe Ruth, but only as related to my son's playing baseball, not as softball associations.

So I'm certified as ASA, and this year became certified w/ NFHS. The reason I did so was based on some suggestions from umpire associates and the fact that I was available to do some high school games. And I learned that NFHS was probably on the order of 95% the same as ASA, again not via hard statistical analysis, just by printing out the differences from ASA, NFHS, and NCAA from the ASA website.

At this point, I get enough games with the two associations I'm certified in with no need or desire to expand into other groups. My memory stick is full enough, and I'm not likely to expand on that capacity.

I guess I'm loyal as a result. But I can see why others might go in other directions. I leave that decision to them, and I don't hold anything against them because they may have learned their craft from ASA and use it elsewhere.

Most of the clinics I've attended, both NFHS and ASA have been "free", although there are annual dues to both. I did attend 1 NUS when they were in my local area. I would LOVE to attend the FP school, but I simply am not in a position to afford that expense.

Learn a craft, pay your dues, remain as loyal as you can, enjoy your work/craft/trade, move forward when you can.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I have never given a clinic (locally) where the umpire was asked to pay

We have broached this subject before, and as I have previously stated, you seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

[topper]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

We have broached this subject before, and as I have previously stated, you seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

Even more exceptional (based on this area) if you actually attempt to present anything more than a reading of the year's rule changes.

[PtotheB]

I live on the border of a very big state. Our ASA district has not sent anyone to a national or even a state tournament for the three years I have been affiliated with them. My bordering state sends a ton of umpires to all kinds of nationals. I have been asked to dual register by their state UIC and have held off for now. I believe that I have one more year of loyalty left in me and then I'm a hired gun.

[bestviewofall]

I have never attended a clinic that I haven't paid for. LOL. I even paid for some of them, attended, and then was asked to help teach. I have no problem with that, though. To keep an organization strong and in tune, there has to be money to support the powers above that make the descions, and drive the Lexuses. LOL

I believe that every association should charge something. Even if the facilities are donated and the materials are supplied, there should be something monetarily generated to at least pay for the lunch for the volunteers and maybe cover some undonated costs. There are so many little costs that none of us realize that add up and either come from the association or from the attendees. The attendees should pay for them. Not the organizers.

Smokey

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by bestviewofall

What if an umpire was trained in another organization and took those skills into yours and became successful there?

Smokey

Smokey,
Unless they have a portfolio pretty close to yours we have required them to go through at least part of our training, including classroom instruction and on the field observation at both plate and base.