(From 2020)While Smokey Gets Another Cold One....

[IRISHMAFIA]

.....well, I'm sure they are cold when he starts typing

My view:

I don't have a problem with an ASA umpire working NCAA or NFHS. I do have a problem with an ASA umpire working the other alphabets while NOT supporting ASA.

I have seen umpires suck up the umpire training and development from ASA and completely dismiss working any ASA games. IMO, if you want to work AFA, NSA, SNA, ISC, USFA, PONY, USSSA and not ASA, you should go to them for training. I'm sure it sounds ridiculous to some of you, but some of these organizations have hijacked ASA's training and used it as their own. This is the reason commissioners are to sign off on applications to the Biennial National UIC Clinic.

I am disappointed that when NCAA initiated a softball umpiring program, ASA was summarily dismissed. As related to me at the first satellite clinic, the NCAA didn't want to be perceived as using umpires "that worked little girl's games". Just where do they think THEIR players and THEIR umpires started? Shame on both ASA and the NCAA for not getting together and working out a partnership here. However, with the arrogance often shown at the NCAA level of operations, that probably would never happen.

I don't get umpires, and there are a few even in my small little area, who reach NCAA ball and all of a sudden, they are too good or elevated to be involved as something so menial as ASA ball.

It amazes me how some umpires can adjust work and social schedules, spend a fair amount of money to make that much more working games miles and hours away, but cannot set aside a few hours a year to attend a clinic or two which is being held for one reason only and that is to help umpires keep sharp and up to date. And before someone says it, simply working games does not keep an umpire sharp. If anything, that is where the umpire tends to become lazy especially toward the end of a long season. All of a sudden they are working a playoff game and someone points out a few flaws of which the umpire wasn't aware.

Originally Posted by bestviewofall

As far as the ASA discussion going on: I cannot believe that they would have any grievances against umpires that work this tournament or elsewhere.

I believe that would depend on the circumstances and any issues in their local association (state/metro). Selections, and the processed utilized, for championship play, including nationals, varies by association. AFAIC, there are three requirements to be sent away to a tournament: 1) ASA National School, 2) support (umpire) the State/Metro Championship Tournaments and 3) knowledge and proper application of ASA rules and mechanics.

What an umpire does on the weekends that I cannot put him/her on the field is their business and if they want to work for XYZ, that is up to them. However, when I need that umpire for a state tournament, I should not have to fight to get them to work a few games.

If you haven't figured it out, I'm a firm believer in the old expression and the many quoted variations of loyalty, "Dance with the one that brung ya". Or in the case of umpiring, "movin' up doesn't have to mean movin' on."

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

.....well, I'm sure they are cold when he starts typing

My view:

I don't have a problem with an ASA umpire working NCAA or NFHS. I do have a problem with an ASA umpire working the other alphabets while NOT supporting ASA.

I have seen umpires suck up the umpire training and development from ASA and completely dismiss working any ASA games. IMO, if you want to work AFA, NSA, SNA, ISC, USFA, PONY, USSSA and not ASA, you should go to them for training. I'm sure it sounds ridiculous to some of you, but some of these organizations have hijacked ASA's training and used it as their own. This is the reason commissioners are to sign off on applications to the Biennial National UIC Clinic.

I am disappointed that when NCAA initiated a softball umpiring program, ASA was summarily dismissed. As related to me at the first satellite clinic, the NCAA didn't want to be perceived as using umpires "that worked little girl's games". Just where do they think THEIR players and THEIR umpires started? Shame on both ASA and the NCAA for not getting together and working out a partnership here. However, with the arrogance often shown at the NCAA level of operations, that probably would never happen.

I don't get umpires, and there are a few even in my small little area, who reach NCAA ball and all of a sudden, they are too good or elevated to be involved as something so menial as ASA ball.

It amazes me how some umpires can adjust work and social schedules, spend a fair amount of money to make that much more working games miles and hours away, but cannot set aside a few hours a year to attend a clinic or two which is being held for one reason only and that is to help umpires keep sharp and up to date. And before someone says it, simply working games does not keep an umpire sharp. If anything, that is where the umpire tends to become lazy especially toward the end of a long season. All of a sudden they are working a playoff game and someone points out a few flaws of which the umpire wasn't aware.



I believe that would depend on the circumstances and any issues in their local association (state/metro). Selections, and the processed utilized, for championship play, including nationals, varies by association. AFAIC, there are three requirements to be sent away to a tournament: 1) ASA National School, 2) support (umpire) the State/Metro Championship Tournaments and 3) knowledge and proper application of ASA rules and mechanics.

What an umpire does on the weekends that I cannot put him/her on the field is their business and if they want to work for XYZ, that is up to them. However, when I need that umpire for a state tournament, I should not have to fight to get them to work a few games.

If you haven't figured it out, I'm a firm believer in the old expression and the many quoted variations of loyalty, "Dance with the one that brung ya". Or in the case of umpiring, "movin' up doesn't have to mean movin' on."

I couldnt agree with you more...... Occasionally you get one right..... :-)

[wadeintothem]

Well I agree with Darrell.. and .. not much more to be added to your post mike. Well said.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Well I agree with Darrell.. and .. not much more to be added to your post mike. Well said.

Lets not make this a habit..Im used to you being wrong....

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

.....It amazes me how some umpires can adjust work and social schedules, spend a fair amount of money to make that much more working games miles and hours away, but cannot set aside a few hours a year to attend a clinic or two which is being held for one reason only and that is to help umpires keep sharp and up to date.

Not to mention those who ump HS & NCAA, but won't show up for travel or other "summer" ball because of the lower fees.

[CecilOne]

The OP includes "And before someone says it, simply working games does not keep an umpire sharp. If anything, that is where the umpire tends to become lazy especially toward the end of a long season. All of a sudden they are working a playoff game and someone points out a few flaws of which the umpire wasn't aware."

My sig certainly agrees with not just working. Feedback and critiques are needed, along with the refresher instruction Mike is promoting. However, actual umpiring does keep us sharp and rust sets in quickly. Also, umpiring other sanctions keeps the basics sharp, even if the differences need review going from one to the other.

Don't know where the lazy part comes from, don't think I get lazy, but maybe because of just weekends after school season.

[bestviewofall]

Mike,

Believe it or not, I too agree with your points. If an ASA trained umpire shuns the group that trained them to go work age group ball elsewhere, that does not sit well. I, for one, know dozens of us that work softball every weekend throughout the year. Other than NCAA, 98.6 percent of the rest is ASA. At every level asked.

When our local ASA association had the clinics and camps in January before the NCAA season started, we all were there. Even in the years when we weren't required.

Unfortunately, they stopped having that early season mechanics camps and we made the choice to keep our college weekend intact rather than become tournament certified.

As I am not "championship certified" I am seldom asked to work championship play. But, as the past proves, anytime they are in a pinch, I provided whatever help I can.

If I missed any points, forgive me. I am in the middle of watching my son's game. Sober.

Smokey

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bestviewofall

Mike,

Believe it or not, I too agree with your points. If an ASA trained umpire shuns the group that trained them to go work age group ball elsewhere, that does not sit well. I, for one, know dozens of us that work softball every weekend throughout the year. Other than NCAA, 98.6 percent of the rest is ASA. At every level asked.

When our local ASA association had the clinics and camps in January before the NCAA season started, we all were there. Even in the years when we weren't required.

Unfortunately, they stopped having that early season mechanics camps and we made the choice to keep our college weekend intact rather than become tournament certified.

As I am not "championship certified" I am seldom asked to work championship play. But, as the past proves, anytime they are in a pinch, I provided whatever help I can.

If I missed any points, forgive me. I am in the middle of watching my son's game. Sober.

Smokey

Smokey,

Please understand and accept that I was not referring to you or referencing your post.

You simply provided a segue to a point of passion which I have concerning umpires and their priorities/loyalties. Many on this board are aware of those feelings, did not mean to rile you.

[bestviewofall]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Smokey,

Please understand and accept that I was not referring to you or referencing your post.

You simply provided a segue to a point of passion which I have concerning umpires and their priorities/loyalties. Many on this board are aware of those feelings, did not mean to rile you.

Mike, after watching a little Mighty Mite football this afternoon (my 8-old got only 6 sacs, an off day) I had a frosty barely pop or two with the team fathers. After that, I took the long drive home and suddenly, it hit me. You weren't blasting me. You were blasting the people you discribed. I'm sorry for the outlandish defense.

But (I'm simply playing devil's advocate here, so please play along nicely), you gotta admit, it is both enticing and a lot easier to justify leaving the wife and kids for another weekend to make a couple thousand dollars than it is to make $200-$300 or volunteer elsewhere.

It is NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, but it is something to think about.

You know that I'm non-confrontational, so pretend that this is someone else that just ticked you off, OK?

Smokey

[Steve M]

Mike,
It's getting late Saturday and I've had a few of those cold ones.
I'd hope that I'm in an unusual situation/area in ASA - I know that Big Slick's area is very different and I believe your whole state is very different. And I really hope that my ASA district commissioner is unique. I do not work local league games any more - just so I'm not seen as supporting something the local commissioner does. I do go watch a number of those games, because umpires in my local chapter are working them and they just might watch to hear what I've seen. I attend the district/state clinic each year and went to a national school and I'll do one or two state tournaments a year. That's all done no good as far as advancing to an ASA national. The high schoold and college seasons do not conflict with any summer schedules, so there's no issue there. I go to PONY and ISC weekends and have done pretty well with those groups. I've even gotten into NPF ball this year. I no longer hope for or expect anything from ASA - it's a waste of time for anyone in PA's district 4. And, at this point in time, I just don't care any more. However, I'm still arrogant enough to think I would have represented ASA pretty well.

[wadeintothem]

It seems to me someone should kick some tail in PA. Its a disgrace.