PU Hold while BU(s) position or Both back in simulataneously

[MNBlue]

Softball Umpire Improvement Program

[ronald]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Softball Umpire Improvement Program

Thank you.

Follow up. The SUIP, once ball in circle, wants BU to move quickly to next position then turn around, then PU moves quickly back to plate. Right?

I used to do that. Now as BU, I move past the base line, turn and back pedal to my position. 1) SUIP not good? 2) ASA - ok, not ok or depends on UIC or let's kill it?

Thanks.

[Rachel]

The SUIP is the NCAA's way of getting all of their umpires working with the same mechanics and philosophy. They have a manual that we are expected to use so that when they bring officials in from all over the country to do regionals and championships everyone knows what is expected. It is written for college fastpitch softball. ASA teaches to the masses and includes many levels and games.

Umpires need to hold their positions until the ball is in the circle and the runners are on their respective bases. Several years ago they asked the plate umpire to hold until a set of eyes is on the runners. It took too long and drew attention to the umpires. Now the BU's turn and hustle to their position and the PU keeps their eyes on play (the ball is not dead) until there is a set of eyes on play (the ball is not dead - things can happen). The idea is that you don't need to stand still. When a BU gets to their next position the PU turns and hustles back to the plate. Umpires can move much like a set of basketball officials. It is faster and does not draw attention to the umpires.

Mechanics are used to make sense for the college fastpitch game. 39,000 umpires don't need to be trained, only the ones that are doing that level of softball.

Calling time as a routine takes away from the game and draws attention to the umpires.

What can happen?
-Pitcher leaves the circle.
-Pitcher drops the ball.
-Catcher walks to the circle w/o asking for time.
etc. etc.

Why take that away from the game?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rachel

Calling time as a routine takes away from the game and draws attention to the umpires.

Come on, give me a break!

What can happen?
-Pitcher leaves the circle.
-Pitcher drops the ball.
-Catcher walks to the circle w/o asking for time.
etc. etc.

Why take that away from the game?

Take what away from the game, a meaningless "gotcha" call that shouldn't occur anyway? If anything, making that call will draw more attention to the umpire then calling time and hustling into position so the teams can get back to doing what they are there to do, play the game.

BTW, who cares if the catcher walks to the circle w/o asking for time, NOTHING can happen without the umpire being put in the spotlight when s/he makes that "gotcha" call!!!

You can ramble all you want about it, there is nothing that keeping the LBR adds to the game. Remember when the WCOS championship game ended on an LBR violation? Right, wrong or indifferent, the call drew serious attention to the crew and the "violation" (as is often the case) had little to nothing to do with the progress of the game.

The LBR is an antiquated "control" tool that is more of a detractor to a game that otherwise has a very positive image.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The LBR is an antiquated "control" tool that is more of a detractor to a game that otherwise has a very positive image.

This may or may not be true - but I think it is irrelevant to the conversaton.

It IS a rule right now. It IS expected to be enforced. It IS used by players and coaches that understand it. Would it make a lot more people happy to do away with the rule - maybe. But if so, why havn't ANY of the rule makers for any of the organizations done so?

Until the rule is done away with, we obviously have to enforce it. And keeping the ball alive and not turning our heads on the ball and players is how we have to do it.

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Helluva an assumption that the batter only swings the bat in the vicinity of the plate.

When I see batters warming up between the plate and circle, or 20-30 feet up the 3rd base line, I'll be sure and address it. Until then, I'll assume it's relatively safe to ease back towards home for the short time it takes my partners to get moved.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

This may or may not be true - but I think it is irrelevant to the conversaton.

It IS relevant to the conversation as the elimination of the rule WOULD make this thread and subsequent discussion obsolete.

It IS a rule right now. It IS expected to be enforced.

We enforce the rules in place. I'm pretty sure I've got that one down after 43 years of umpiring.

It IS used by players and coaches that understand it.

As noted by people other than myself, this rule was not meant to be "used" by anyone other than the umpire.

Would it make a lot more people happy to do away with the rule - maybe. But if so, why havn't ANY of the rule makers for any of the organizations done so?

Maybe for the same reason that until a couple years ago, the rules did not allow a batter to attempt to advance to 1B on an U3K with two outs and 1B unoccupied.

Maybe for the same reason that ASA rules do not address a fair batted ball which lands (hits the ground) and deflects off a fielder and leaves play in fair territory.

People are apathetic and often just accept the status quo whether it makes sense or not.

Until the rule is done away with, we obviously have to enforce it. And keeping the ball alive and not turning our heads on the ball and players is how we have to do it.

The ball is "live", not alive. But because of this rule, nothing can happen. Runners cannot leave the base, so there is no reason to throw the ball, the ball cannot be pitched or hit, so what is so "live" about the ball other than to get umpires to argue over who said what about who is watching whom first and whether "backing" into position is acceptable at any level of the game!

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It IS relevant to the conversation as the elimination of the rule WOULD make this thread and subsequent discussion obsolete.

I disagree. The discussion is how we handle returning to our positions, not how we should do it if the rules were different.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

We enforce the rules in place. I'm pretty sure I've got that one down after 43 years of umpiring.

I wasn't being a SA, just commenting on why I thought it wasn't relevant.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

As noted by people other than myself, this rule was not meant to be "used" by anyone other than the umpire.

When the rule is violated, people know and expect us to enforce it. They don't sit back and say, "That's an obsolete rule anyway, I don't want you to call my opponent out."

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Maybe for the same reason that until a couple years ago, the rules did not allow a batter to attempt to advance to 1B on an U3K with two outs and 1B unoccupied.

Maybe for the same reason that ASA rules do not address a fair batted ball which lands (hits the ground) and deflects off a fielder and leaves play in fair territory.

People are apathetic and often just accept the status quo whether it makes sense or not.

That's definitely true!

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The ball is "live", not alive.

Brain cramp! Sometimes I type faster than I think.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

But because of this rule, nothing can happen. Runners cannot leave the base, so there is no reason to throw the ball, the ball cannot be pitched or hit, so what is so "live" about the ball other than to get umpires to argue over who said what about who is watching whom first and whether "backing" into position is acceptable at any level of the game!

I disagree that nothing can happen. I would agree that nothing 'should' happen. But, as Rachel pointed out, things do happen. Pitchers walk out of the circle. Pitchers put the ball on the ground to fix their hair without having time called. Runners step off bases. Things definitely do happen.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Then why can't the runner's run? Could it be that is because the same amount of action is supposed to take place during this period as that when the ball is dead? Oops!

(and then the ensuing debate...)

You're just not a smilie kind of guy, I guess!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

You're just not a smilie kind of guy, I guess!

Why would I smile when you put up a picture of my mother-in-law?

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Why would I smile when you put up a picture of my mother-in-law?

I think her sister is related to my wife!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

I disagree that nothing can happen. I would agree that nothing 'should' happen. But, as Rachel pointed out, things do happen. Pitchers walk out of the circle. Pitchers put the ball on the ground to fix their hair without having time called. Runners step off bases. Things definitely do happen.

And a meteor could fall on the pitcher!!! Can the runner advance if she drops the ball with a 200 ton rock sitting on her head?

The runners cannot advance, so who gives a **** if they come off the base?

The rule was not meant to be a cheap out or part of a strategy. I certainly hope you are not fearful FP umpires are not able to handle the situation as SP umpires have been doing for decades.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The rule was not meant to be a cheap out or part of a strategy. I certainly hope you are not fearful FP umpires are not able to handle the situation as SP umpires have been doing for decades.

What is its meaning? Serious question as have never heard why it is there.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And a meteor could fall on the pitcher!!! Can the runner advance if she drops the ball with a 200 ton rock sitting on her head?

Wouldn't that be a block ball?

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The runners cannot advance, so who gives a **** if they come off the base?

They can advance, they just can't advance legally.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The rule was not meant to be a cheap out or part of a strategy. I certainly hope you are not fearful FP umpires are not able to handle the situation as SP umpires have been doing for decades.

My fear is that SP umpires won't call outs when they get drafted to work bases on my field and the LBR is violated.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ronald

What is its meaning? Serious question as have never heard why it is there.

From ASA:

Many years ago the Look Back Rule was established to help speed-up the game by stopping the pitcher and the runner from “toying” with each other when the ball was being returned to the infield after it had been put in play. The rule was not established for the offense or defense to gain an advantage through “trick plays” or by “baiting” the other side into a violation.