A hold is a hold...

[ljudge]

...."oh really coach?"

I had an interesting dialog with a coach the other day in a scrimmage. The coaches were on the field 10 yards behind the offense getting the plays in and watching plays develop, etc. BUT, now I see a hold away from the play. I say "Hey 82, you just held him. I would have flagged you had the play not gone to the other side."

So the coach barks "You can't call a game that way, a hold is a hold!" I responded telling him no advantage was gained, bla bla bla. He said "if you guys are going to start that stuff THIS YEAR that's going to be a problem." I said coach it's always been called that way and that's the way holding is supposed to be called.

He flat out didn't like it. It was an assistant. I'm curious as to whether any of you have had this dialog and what you said to satisfy the coach.

[Bob Lyle]

I think it was poor judgment on your part to say what you said to the player. Some officials believe "No harm, no foul." but they keep their mouths shut about it. It's poor policy to advertise this mindset. The coaches either hate it or don't understand it.

Bottom line, I see the coach's point.

[TXMike]

This is why I posted on the other board about NOT talking to the players like this. If you are going to say something like this, at least be more discreet. There are coaches like this one who will NEVER get it so don't waste your time trying.

[grantsrc]

Ask the coach then what is the point of the new rule change for DPI away from the ball? "Pass interference is pass interference...." Or, just start flagging ever single thing, no wait, I don't like that. Simply ask him if he would like every single foul we see called against his team as well, assuming the other team was holding his guy.

Or ask him if the player that was held, could he impact the play? If the answer is no, well then there is your answer. Now you cannot take a guy out each play assuming he won't have an impact, but you get my drift.

[l3will]

Just had the opposite discussion with a coach this weekend,
he wanted to know why some officials call a hold when it
doesn't affect the play and is on the opposite side of the
field. He was upset about a call made against his team
during a game Friday night.

As he said, "If you want to, you can call holding on almost every play in a high school game." And he is a defensive
coach.

[grantsrc]

One way to phrase it is, "Make sure your hands are clean." Doesn't really say much there either way. What do you think of that?

[l3will]

I missed the fact that this was in a scrimmage.

During a scrimmage, I may or may not throw the flag, but
I will tell the player and his coach if they held. The coach
and player have always appreciated the information. I do this
for ALL holds in a scrimmage that I see. Line coaches seem
to appreciate this the most, especially if I show the coach
what the player was doing.

Most of the scrimmages I have worked here are scripted...
offense runs 15 plays, switch... other team runs 15 plays.
The coaches want the info, but not the walk offs. They
just want to get the kids some work.

This all depends on what the coaching staff wants in the
scrimmage. Almost universal is to blow the play dead if
the QB is about ready to get clobbered behind the line.
That one can result in a bad habit, so I tell the coach to
be ready to blow it dead himself if he wants the QB protected
more.

[Forksref]

I was white-hatting a Freshman game today. I discreetly told a player to "not wrap your arm around someone you are blocking." It was a way from the play and I accomplished two things: (1) made sure I didn't throw a flag when it didn't affect the play and (2) preventive/instructive officiating to young players.

I have no problem with working a game in this way.

[JugglingReferee]

Some interesting comments.

I'm a bit of a hard @$$. I will not put up with comments like that in a scrimmage, especially from a coach that is on the field. And even an assistant coach at that! As far as I am concerned, he is only there to observe his players.

The comment I might use is "#52, that was close to a hold, and I think some other referees might call it. I want you to learn now, so that you don't do it in a regular game."

I would also tell the head coach, or some assistants if I know they understand we're all there to learn.

Perhaps it's that we have a great relationship with the coaches up here. But they don't bother me at all. I'm quite honest with them.

[whaddayouknow]

Originally posted by ljudge
He said "if you guys are going to start that stuff THIS YEAR that's going to be a problem."

And so then you threw the flag and said, "Okay Coach. Then a USC must be a USC."

Just kidding.... sort of. I agree that the hold call should not have been made. When I 'scold' someone, I never say it "was" a , I say, it "was real close to" the infraction. If it is not the coach listening, it will be the players on the other team that will whine for the rest of the game.

[ljudge]

Originally posted by Bob Lyle
I think it was poor judgment on your part to say what you said to the player. Some officials believe "No harm, no foul." but they keep their mouths shut about it. It's poor policy to advertise this mindset. The coaches either hate it or don't understand it.

Bottom line, I see the coach's point.

Bob, I understand your position but lets agree to disagree. From everything I've always read in the professional publications and have been told by senior officials it's more of preventive officiating for when the play does come his way.

[cowbyfan1]

In a scrimmage I had QB rolled out to his right. D lineman in persuit. QB throws a pass the then his momentium had him running towards the LOS. I yell ball's gone 2 times and was ready to say it a 3rd as I saw the D- lineman still coming at him when he dives and tackles the QB from behind. I throw my flag. D coach went nuts saying that is not roughing cuz "the QB was running toward the LOS" I told him it was a pass and it doesn;t matter which direction the QB is running. He then commented that should never be called on Friday nights. I told him if it wasn't then that official should not be working Friday nights. He then preceeded to tell his player he did nothing wrong. I then thought to myself, it is no wonder why this team cannot beat the best teams in the state.

[MJT]

Comments to players like, "I need to see your fingers, don't get your arms on the outside of him, and carefull of hooking him," can go a long way when followed up by, "that was pretty borderline." This is maybe a little more suttle way of saying the same thing as "it would have been a hold if the ball came this way." I agree about taking to the players to be a good preventative official.

[michaelpr]

i will try to aviod the "***"istant coaches.