looking for wording

[jmkupka]

OK, since I'm being annoying, how about if the runner, instead of contacting a foul ball that is obviously about to come into fair territory, interferes with a fielder attempting to keep that ball foul. Let's even make it blatantly intentional (just not USC for an ejection)... still nothing but a foul ball?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

OK, since I'm being annoying, how about if the runner, instead of contacting a foul ball that is obviously about to come into fair territory, interferes with a fielder attempting to keep that ball foul. Let's even make it blatantly intentional (just not USC for an ejection)... still nothing but a foul ball?

Interference with a player while the ball is foul is not illegal(*); find a rule to prove me wrong.

It won't actually help in your example though because it is a reason that the ball becomes foul. Interference while the ball is foul causes the ball to be foul regardless of what it subsequently does.


(*) at least it doesn't result in an out

[Tru_in_Blu]

It took a while, but I did finally locate the wording I was looking for.

It is an NFHS rule: 7-4 Batter is out

Art. 13 After hitting or bunting a ball, the bat hits the ball a second time while the ball is on or over fair territory, or is on or over foul territory and, in the umpire's judgment, had a chance to become a fair ball.

EXCEPTION: If the batter is in the batter's box and the bat is in the batter's hands when the second contact occurs, it is a foul ball regardless of whether the ball was on or over fair or foul territory unless, in the umpire's judgment, the batter intentionally hit the ball a second time.

USA Softball has no such wording.

I remembered this odd wording, and initially thought it might apply to a batted ground ball that was foul and might become fair. Clearly, that is not the case as the above wording applies to a ball hit a second time.

The USA Softball wording of this situation seems a bit clearer to me, although there have still been questions about it. Perhaps there was a clarification on this a while back.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by youngump

Interference with a player while the ball is foul is not illegal(*); find a rule to prove me wrong.

(*) at least it doesn't result in an out

How about 8-7-J-1-F? For USA Softball, it's actually 2 outs.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

How about 8-7-J-1-F? For USA Softball, it's actually 2 outs.

I agree with youngump. IMO, USA's wording is faulty as a caught fly ball is nothing more than a caught fly ball and the position of said ball is irrelevant to the rules. A ball does not become foul until it is no longer a fly ball

[jmkupka]

For the EXCEPTION section, it should just read "any fly ball that can be caught with ordinary effort". If it is interfered with, both interfering runner and batter are called out.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

How about 8-7-J-1-F? For USA Softball, it's actually 2 outs.

I don't have my rulebook with me but I believe that's for a fly ball? My comment should have said interfering with a player while a grounded ball is foul. Fly balls on either side of the line are not the same thing.

[Manny A]

Wow, this discussion was so convoluted; I've never seen so many different things talked about in 15 posts. Foul ground balls, foul fly balls, detached equipment, bats hitting balls a second time...

Is it pretty much a done deal that the situation in the OP was nothing but a foul ball?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Wow, this discussion was so convoluted; I've never seen so many different things talked about in 15 posts. Foul ground balls, foul fly balls, detached equipment, bats hitting balls a second time...

That's the trouble with simple ones.

Originally Posted by Manny A

Is it pretty much a done deal that the situation in the OP was nothing but a foul ball?

Yep !

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Wow, this discussion was so convoluted; I've never seen so many different things talked about in 15 posts. Foul ground balls, foul fly balls, detached equipment, bats hitting balls a second time...

Is it pretty much a done deal that the situation in the OP was nothing but a foul ball?

Agreed. We spiraled off on many tangents. Some more related than others. (So was this a new world's indoor record??)

As the original poster, I do agree that this should have been simply ruled a foul ball.

And I did find the phrasing that got me confused in the first place. (That was one of those tangents.)

[jmkupka]

I went back to my post to see how much it deviated from topic, and discovered it was easily the dumbest comment/question I've ever posted here...