looking for wording

[youngump]

Intentional interference with a grounded foul ball is not illegal. Find a rule to prove me wrong.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Nothing but a foul ball

[jmkupka]

True. I was citing the NCAA interp, and it is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

[jmkupka]

OK, since I'm being annoying, how about if the runner, instead of contacting a foul ball that is obviously about to come into fair territory, interferes with a fielder attempting to keep that ball foul. Let's even make it blatantly intentional (just not USC for an ejection)... still nothing but a foul ball?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

OK, since I'm being annoying, how about if the runner, instead of contacting a foul ball that is obviously about to come into fair territory, interferes with a fielder attempting to keep that ball foul. Let's even make it blatantly intentional (just not USC for an ejection)... still nothing but a foul ball?

Interference with a player while the ball is foul is not illegal(*); find a rule to prove me wrong.

It won't actually help in your example though because it is a reason that the ball becomes foul. Interference while the ball is foul causes the ball to be foul regardless of what it subsequently does.


(*) at least it doesn't result in an out

[Tru_in_Blu]

It took a while, but I did finally locate the wording I was looking for.

It is an NFHS rule: 7-4 Batter is out

Art. 13 After hitting or bunting a ball, the bat hits the ball a second time while the ball is on or over fair territory, or is on or over foul territory and, in the umpire's judgment, had a chance to become a fair ball.

EXCEPTION: If the batter is in the batter's box and the bat is in the batter's hands when the second contact occurs, it is a foul ball regardless of whether the ball was on or over fair or foul territory unless, in the umpire's judgment, the batter intentionally hit the ball a second time.

USA Softball has no such wording.

I remembered this odd wording, and initially thought it might apply to a batted ground ball that was foul and might become fair. Clearly, that is not the case as the above wording applies to a ball hit a second time.

The USA Softball wording of this situation seems a bit clearer to me, although there have still been questions about it. Perhaps there was a clarification on this a while back.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by youngump

Interference with a player while the ball is foul is not illegal(*); find a rule to prove me wrong.

(*) at least it doesn't result in an out

How about 8-7-J-1-F? For USA Softball, it's actually 2 outs.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

How about 8-7-J-1-F? For USA Softball, it's actually 2 outs.

I agree with youngump. IMO, USA's wording is faulty as a caught fly ball is nothing more than a caught fly ball and the position of said ball is irrelevant to the rules. A ball does not become foul until it is no longer a fly ball

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

How about 8-7-J-1-F? For USA Softball, it's actually 2 outs.

I don't have my rulebook with me but I believe that's for a fly ball? My comment should have said interfering with a player while a grounded ball is foul. Fly balls on either side of the line are not the same thing.

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by youngump

Intentional interference with a grounded foul ball is not illegal. Find a rule to prove me wrong.

Most rule books follow the official rules of baseball, with specific alterations. Most agree that where not covered specifically by the association you are officiating, revert to OBR.

Rule 7.09 a batter or runner is out when:

7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when—

(b) He intentionally deflects the course of a foul ball in any manner;

Ring em up, until a ball is declared foul it is still live. It can't be declared until It passes 1st or 3rd, settles, touches something, is touched by the defense or strikes the batter in the box. There is no place for any member of the offense to touch a batted ball.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Most agree that where not covered specifically by the association you are officiating, revert to OBR.

NEVER in SOFTBALL !

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Most rule books follow the official rules of baseball, with specific alterations. Most agree that where not covered specifically by the association you are officiating, revert to OBR.

Many softball officials don't know the rules of softball. I can't believe this select group of folks know baseball rules any better.

So get the group that doesn't know the rules in the sport they're working and have them interpret their situation from some other sport they may or may not work.

Kinda like adding sulfur to hydrochloric acid. I got sent to the vice principal's office for doing that once.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Many softball officials don't know the rules of softball. I can't believe this select group of folks know baseball rules any better.

So get the group that doesn't know the rules in the sport they're working and have them interpret their situation from some other sport they may or may not work.

Well said, but missing several

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Kinda like adding sulfur to hydrochloric acid. I got sent to the vice principal's office for doing that once.