looking for wording

[Tru_in_Blu]

USA Softball 18U tournament this past weekend. I am on the bases, an inexperienced umpire is PU.

Bases loaded, no outs. Batter hits a ball that is rolling in foul territory towards third base. Along the foul line there is some grass about 2 - 2 1/2 feet from the line. The runner from third base after leaving on the pitch release is now about 4 feet from the base in foul territory. She has her heel on the ground and traps the ball under the front part of her shoe.

PU takes a second and declares a foul ball.

Defensive coach asks for time and talks to PU who then asks me to come in to discuss. She said the coach thinks that was INT on the base runner. I said you could make a case for INT. She thought about it for a few seconds and decided the runner was out for INT.

The batted ball was not a screamer. It did not "hit" the runner in foul territory. The runner did something very deliberate in stopping the ball.

Would it have stayed foul if untouched? Possibly. There is that little mounding of the turf where the grass is growing. The ball could have hit a clump of grass and come into fair territory or clipped the base on the way by.

My dilemma is that I cannot find the correct rule reference in the USA Softball rules book. Now I may have the wording stuck in my head from NFHS.

The paraphrasing I recall is something like: "or interferes with a ground foul ball that might have a chance of being fair". But it might have been related to a BR.

I know that in some cases, passages I recall are not where I might expect them to be.

Can anybody help?

Thanx.

[CecilOne]

I assume you are looking for something in the 8-7-J area.

The trouble is it is a foul ball and not in flight, so how can there be a play to interfere with?

I don't see supposing the ball becoming fair, possibilities are not reality.

Maybe some other approach like UC or ..., which would have to look intentional.

[jmkupka]

The only rule I'm aware of dealing with "a ball in foul territory that could possibly become fair" deals with the defense touching the ball with detached equipment.

For instance, a catcher seeing a foul ball about to cross the chalk swats at it with her mask to keep it foul... 3 base award (if you think it would've gone fair)

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

The only rule I'm aware of dealing with "a ball in foul territory that could possibly become fair" deals with the defense touching the ball with detached equipment.

For instance, a catcher seeing a foul ball about to cross the chalk swats at it with her mask to keep it foul... 3 base award (if you think it would've gone fair)

Not to hijack my own thread, but in your case above, if the catcher has the mask in her possession, it's not detached. Secondly, if she throws the mask (or glove) and it hits the ball while in foul territory, this is not a violation. The batted ball must be on or over fair territory to have a violation.

My correction: the mask would be detached. For example, she can't catch a popup with the mask. If she throws glove or mask and hits a batted ball in foul territory, not a violation.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Maybe some other approach like UC or ..., which would have to look intentional.

Oh, this was most definitely intentional.

[youngump]

Intentional interference with a grounded foul ball is not illegal. Find a rule to prove me wrong.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Nothing but a foul ball

[jmkupka]

True. I was citing the NCAA interp, and it is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

[jmkupka]

OK, since I'm being annoying, how about if the runner, instead of contacting a foul ball that is obviously about to come into fair territory, interferes with a fielder attempting to keep that ball foul. Let's even make it blatantly intentional (just not USC for an ejection)... still nothing but a foul ball?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

OK, since I'm being annoying, how about if the runner, instead of contacting a foul ball that is obviously about to come into fair territory, interferes with a fielder attempting to keep that ball foul. Let's even make it blatantly intentional (just not USC for an ejection)... still nothing but a foul ball?

Interference with a player while the ball is foul is not illegal(*); find a rule to prove me wrong.

It won't actually help in your example though because it is a reason that the ball becomes foul. Interference while the ball is foul causes the ball to be foul regardless of what it subsequently does.


(*) at least it doesn't result in an out

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by youngump

Intentional interference with a grounded foul ball is not illegal. Find a rule to prove me wrong.

Most rule books follow the official rules of baseball, with specific alterations. Most agree that where not covered specifically by the association you are officiating, revert to OBR.

Rule 7.09 a batter or runner is out when:

7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when—

(b) He intentionally deflects the course of a foul ball in any manner;

Ring em up, until a ball is declared foul it is still live. It can't be declared until It passes 1st or 3rd, settles, touches something, is touched by the defense or strikes the batter in the box. There is no place for any member of the offense to touch a batted ball.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Most agree that where not covered specifically by the association you are officiating, revert to OBR.

NEVER in SOFTBALL !

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Most rule books follow the official rules of baseball, with specific alterations. Most agree that where not covered specifically by the association you are officiating, revert to OBR.

Many softball officials don't know the rules of softball. I can't believe this select group of folks know baseball rules any better.

So get the group that doesn't know the rules in the sport they're working and have them interpret their situation from some other sport they may or may not work.

Kinda like adding sulfur to hydrochloric acid. I got sent to the vice principal's office for doing that once.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Many softball officials don't know the rules of softball. I can't believe this select group of folks know baseball rules any better.

So get the group that doesn't know the rules in the sport they're working and have them interpret their situation from some other sport they may or may not work.

Well said, but missing several

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Kinda like adding sulfur to hydrochloric acid. I got sent to the vice principal's office for doing that once.