Taking a knee

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Do you tell them to "be careful" on every play of the game? The defense, I believe, is fully aware that they cannot hit a player after the ball is dead. When you tell a kid to "be careful" on a kneel down you have essentially told him to not go full speed.

Actually I tell players a lot of the time stuff not to do during the game when the ball is dead. That is what I have done for years and just about every official that knows anything about football does the same thing. Oh, it is not just a HS thing; it is a college thing too from my experience. We talk to players a lot so we do not have to throw flags or unsportsmanlike or even personal fouls. Why is this time any different?

Originally Posted by JasonTX

You have a muffed snap and the defense has basically quit because that is how they interpret your "be careful" you have taken away their right to play to 0:00. I believe in preventive officiating 100%. I'm just as prepared to flag a late hit on a kneel down play just as I am a normal play in the first qtr.

But you keep talking about a muffed snap which I almost never seen at this point of the game at any level. If there is a muffed snap, then so be it. And if you think players only listen to us anyway, then you give us a little more credit then we deserve. I talk to players in a lot of football games and there is still a flag thrown for the very thing I warned them about. Sometimes the very player I warned for their behavior. Yep, the only listen to what we say.

Originally Posted by JasonTX

I'm quickly coming in when he takes a knee, just as I do on any other play where there are piles of players after making a tackle. As I said previously, if you are expecting the players to ease up, then just let the clock run without a delay foul.

Why change what you did the entire game right? Remember you said that everything is the same so why do you need to come in quickly? Sounds to me you are doing something you are being critical of others for doing. And again, I did not tell them to ease up or stop playing football; we tell them to be careful. Again this is what we do; it does not have to be what you do. In the culture of “our game” teams do the sportsmanlike thing and do not try to charge on a kneel down play. That is not just from what the officials tell them, that is how the coaches expect them to behave.

I will give one more analogy. This is kind of like the discussion people had about the Mayweather-Ortiz fight last night. There are some standards that are expected even when you are participating in a sport. Right or wrong on a football field you better be prepared to protect yourself. And some in that discussion felt that you should only wait until everything was OK to.

The bottom line is most games this is not even an issue. Most games are not one possession games where the snap a bad snap is going to decide the game. I have yet to have a game this year was even in question. Most games are blowouts or more than 2 possession games where even a bad snap would not change the outcome of any game. So this fear that "what if.." is really kind of silly to me. Most of the time the game is clearly over and the teams want to go on to the next week with all their players eligible the next game.

Peace

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually I tell players a lot of the time stuff not to do during the game when the ball is dead. That is what I have done for years and just about every official that knows anything about football does the same thing. Oh, it is not just a HS thing; it is a college thing too from my experience. We talk to players a lot so we do not have to throw flags or unsportsmanlike or even personal fouls. Why is this time any different?



But you keep talking about a muffed snap which I almost never seen at this point of the game at any level. If there is a muffed snap, then so be it. And if you think players only listen to us anyway, then you give us a little more credit then we deserve. I talk to players in a lot of football games and there is still a flag thrown for the very thing I warned them about. Sometimes the very player I warned for their behavior. Yep, the only listen to what we say.



Why change what you did the entire game right? Remember you said that everything is the same so why do you need to come in quickly? Sounds to me you are doing something you are being critical of others for doing. And again, I did not tell them to ease up or stop playing football; we tell them to be careful. Again this is what we do; it does not have to be what you do. In the culture of “our game” teams do the sportsmanlike thing and do not try to charge on a kneel down play. That is not just from what the officials tell them, that is how the coaches expect them to behave.

I will give one more analogy. This is kind of like the discussion people had about the Mayweather-Ortiz fight last night. There are some standards that are expected even when you are participating in a sport. Right or wrong on a football field you better be prepared to protect yourself. And some in that discussion felt that you should only wait until everything was OK to.

The bottom line is most games this is not even an issue. Most games are not one possession games where the snap a bad snap is going to decide the game. I have yet to have a game this year was even in question. Most games are blowouts or more than 2 possession games where even a bad snap would not change the outcome of any game. So this fear that "what if.." is really kind of silly to me. Most of the time the game is clearly over and the teams want to go on to the next week with all their players eligible the next game.

Peace

Good points. I guess my point is that in all the times we were told it was a "taking a knee" play, I've never said anything to the defense and I've never had any issues or cheap shots from not saying anything to them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Good points. I guess my point is that in all the times we were told it was a "taking a knee" play, I've never said anything to the defense and I've never had any issues or cheap shots from not saying anything to them.

I am not in total disagreement with your position at all, I have to make that clear. My point is that is what is accepted here or similar surroundings I am sure and would not be accepted in other places. I find nothing right or wrong as long as everyone is pretty much on the same page. You make some excellent points and I would have no problem doing that if it was not as common here.

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The R walks up and says, "offense will take a knee; defense, do not hit anyone; offense, you are committed and you can't fake it." Sorry to sound arrogant, but this is the ONLY way to handle this. I wouldn't work for anyone that told me any different.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is what is so frustrating with having a real conversation with many here. You take words and place them in people's arguments because you do not agree with it. No one here said anything about preventing someone getting hurt or stop from someone playing hard. We tell players to do things all the time and they either follow or they suffer the consequences. We tell players to line up a certain way (when to move up on the line or move back off the line), we tell them to watch their hands or stop when the play is over and we even tell them not to hit the center directly, but all of a sudden it is wrong to inform players of the situation where a team has clearly decided they are not going to run a play and to tell them to "be careful" which has always meant to me is not go over the top and start some trouble. If the damn offense fumbles the ball, then they fumble the ball and everything is the same. But that is not what anyone cares about; they are trying to stop players from over reacting to things that happen when the player is over. How about allowing a player to run head strong over the line and hit a player that is not blocking anymore? Are we to just say, "Well that is football." Usually when the game is over is the time when things can clearly get out of hand and have gotten that way in the past.

Peace

Emphasis in both quotes is mine.

Jeff, JasonTX was responding to Texas Aggie who indeed did say the only way to handle the situation was to tell the defense to not hit anyone. That's not putting words into someone's mouth. And it's pretty clear Texas Aggie is going too far and doing far more than reminding the defense to play with due care.