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Old Sat Oct 30, 2004, 07:40am
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Well, it happened last night.

My Umpire asked me if A was going to take a knee. I told him that A was going to run a play.

Well, all the defense heard was "take a knee". A ran a dive play, up the middle, and 20 yards later the FB scores. Now the score is 42-16 with 20 seconds left.

The HC from the home team comes running on the field screaming about the Umpire telling his defense that the other team was taking a knee. I still can't figure out how he knew what was said before the play had ended.

I ruled that A ran a legal play, and the TD stands.

I also decided that the situation was tense, and since B had no chance of winning, I did not flag anyone. It would only make things worse.

With a mutual agreement between both coaches, it was decided that the contest is over. Team A coach did not want to score on that play, or any other play. Game over, let's go home.

As we were leaving the field both coaches (home & visiting) caught me and the BJ at mid-field, uh-oh here it comes. They both shook our hands and told us that the crew called a great game, and to forget about that last play. They were sincere, told us "No S***, you guys did a good job.

WHAT?
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Old Sun Oct 31, 2004, 10:17am
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it is stories like that one that make dealing with coaches enjoyable. sounds like the two had some integrity...rare in this day and age.
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Old Sun Oct 31, 2004, 06:43pm
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Hurray for those two!!!
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Old Mon Nov 01, 2004, 04:51am
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Sounds to me like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Probably a bunch of pod people wherever chiefgil does his refing!

Congrats on having some coaches that also understand the concept of sportsmanship - and for having the sense to not throw that 15er on the home team coach.

James
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Old Mon Nov 01, 2004, 08:06am
goldcoastump
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That could happen to any crew. You are better off stopping a cheap shot. Most of the time you are not going to cause a difference in the game by this mistake as the team taking a knee is usually winning. The only problem you could have is point differental in Regions. It's good you had two class acts that night.
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Old Mon Nov 01, 2004, 10:38am
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I'm curious why U felt the need to ask that question. I continue to hold that everyone is better off simply treating the Knee Play as a normal play, and doing otherwise is asking for trouble or giving one team or the other an advantage.
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Old Mon Nov 01, 2004, 11:01am
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Quote:
Originally posted by mcrowder
I'm curious why U felt the need to ask that question. I continue to hold that everyone is better off simply treating the Knee Play as a normal play, and doing otherwise is asking for trouble or giving one team or the other an advantage.
I am with mcrowder. As ump I only remind B to keep it clean as I walk away from ball after RFP. In fact in the playoff game we had Sat. night (2nd level) B lineman actually asked A QB if they were taking a knee (A leading 28-7 with 20 seconds left). A calmly answered yes, B said thanks, told his teammates to watch it, a knee was taken and game ended nicely. After the earlier discussion on this I was a little nervous on what might happen.

The game was clean and well played, with little trash talking, although, I did mention to the WH that both teams had at least one player that was very adept at the "Eddie Haskell". They would very kindly say something to the opponent that you just knew was meant to mean something else.

I am now finished for the season. Had 2 playoff games (what an honor). Can't wait for next year.
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Old Mon Nov 01, 2004, 11:53am
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I had a similar situation this past Saturday in a youth league. Score A 19 and B 6. A has the ball on their own 45 yard line with 30 seconds left in the game. B has no more time outs. 3 man crew. A tells the Referee that they are going to take a knee. We tell the defense the QB is going to take a knee. Referee takes a position near the QB to protect him. QB takes the snap, pitches the ball back to the running back and off he goes to score a touchdown.
I threw a flag for unsportsmen like behavior on A. Is that an appropriate call. By the way B declined the penalty and the game ended.
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Old Mon Nov 01, 2004, 12:22pm
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REPLY: Personally, I don't believe that USC is warranted in this situation. However, I'm sure I saw a hold right there at the point of attack.

In all seriousness, this situation does warrant advice to both teams: "The game is not over. Continue to protect yourselves and be very aware when the ball becomes dead." I would prefer that the offense not tell me when they're taking a knee. If I see the offense line up in a formation where the tail back is about twenty yards back, I'll tighten up. But I will never tell the defense that he's taking a knee. If the QB tells me he's taking a knee, I tell him to do it immediately.
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Old Mon Nov 01, 2004, 12:54pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by my3sons
I had a similar situation this past Saturday in a youth league. Score A 19 and B 6. A has the ball on their own 45 yard line with 30 seconds left in the game. B has no more time outs. 3 man crew. A tells the Referee that they are going to take a knee. We tell the defense the QB is going to take a knee. Referee takes a position near the QB to protect him. QB takes the snap, pitches the ball back to the running back and off he goes to score a touchdown.
I threw a flag for unsportsmen like behavior on A. Is that an appropriate call. By the way B declined the penalty and the game ended.
I would agree that this is USC. You can't run off of the field yelling "Where's the tee" or "This is the wrong ball". These are illegal due to the verbage. When A tells you that they are taking a knee they have to know that some officials will pass that info along to the other team. They are telling you what they are doing to protect themselves. If after you tell the other team of what A intends to do they don't do it you have gotten yourself in a bad spot but due to info provided by A. At no other time in the game did they tell you that they were running a sweep to the left so you might want to get positioned over there to cover it better.

If I had (but I never would) told B that A was taking a knee and then didn't they might just get an IW and a flag. I tell them to play hard but not to do anything cheap.
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Old Mon Nov 01, 2004, 01:45pm
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I disagree. Where's the Ball, and Get the tee are not the same situation. This is EXACTLY why I feel you should NEVER do anything differently in an obvious Knee situation.

Is it a foul if the offense comes to the line and says, "We're throwing a pass to the right flanker", and then runs left? Of course not --- so why is this different?

Do NOT tell the defense to lay off. If you do, you deprive them of a possible recovery on a muffed snap. At most, tell OL, "Protect yourselves", and tell Def, "IF they take a knee, I don't want to see anything unsportsmanlike or unnecessary." We obviously don't want people hurt on a true Knee play - but it is not within our perview to limit the options of the offense or the abilities of the defense.
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Old Mon Nov 01, 2004, 03:11pm
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McCrowder, I agree with you. Team A could be winning by say 4 pts. and is intent on one final play to run out the clock. They say "were taking a knee" to the R, but then as the QB is under center the coach remembers his district uses a point system and that his team needs to win by 10 pts to make the playoffs so he signals in a play to the QB under center and he audibles and then scores on the play. It's perfecly legal to run something other than what the play is you tell the R. If they tell you that their taking a knee, then your only response should be for the lineman to protect the QB just as they would on any other play. If they come in and cheapshot the QB then they get penalized and possible DQ'd for a flagrant foul. I can't protect a QB, that's his linemans job.
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Old Mon Nov 01, 2004, 04:46pm
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REPLY: The problem we run into on this situation is that the two teams' near term objectives are likely in direct opposition. A wants the game over with so they can go get a shower and celebrate. And they want B to feel the same way. B wants the game to continue in a competitive manner so they might get that last shot to get the ball and possibly score. And they could care less that A wants the game to end. And Jason hit the nail on the head as to where this all comes together. It's with the offensive line--not the defense. If the O-line feels that all they need to do is stand up and B will stop their charge, they might be mistaken. They need to continue to protect the QB.
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Old Mon Nov 01, 2004, 05:04pm
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I agree Bob. And in a game where that's true during the entire game (each team has opposing objectives), we owe it to the teams to be consistent in our manner of calls, and allow the game to come to completion in a natural manner.

This tendency for officials to relax at this point (not all, obviously) is as bad as the tendency for the OL to relax. I see it too often on the field, and I guess this is one of my pet peeves - one that I'll even discuss pointedly with an official that has a lot more tenure than I do. I truly feel that the habit of relaying this particular play to the defense, and then expecting them to not play football, is a horrible one. As you said - the offense's objective on this play (usually) is just to get it over with. Why do we side with the offense on this - we are impartial (supposedly ), and should simply take the minimal step to aid in safety, without taking anything away from the defense.
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Old Mon Nov 01, 2004, 07:56pm
tpaul
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I agree with you guys (mcrowder, Bob M, Jason TX).

I never want to tell a team how to play, other then "IF" the QB takes a knee let's not have any unnecessary stuff...
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