Taking a knee - then throw a TD

[MJT]

Towards end of game, team ahead by 10 or more, and they have the ball. Less than 1 minute left on the clock. You ask and they tell you they are going to take a knee.

You tell the defense "they are taking a knee" and give them a polite warning to "not rush hard." (THIS IS TAKEN FROM NASO MAGAZINE)

All is well until the offense, after saying they would take a knee, fakes it and throws a TD pass.

I think you give an USC foul, supported by 9-9 (unfair acts) Our crew has decided to take it one step further and tell the QB "I will tell the defense you are taking a knee. If you do not, you will receive an USC foul."

What do you think of this senario, and what our crew does?

[mcrowder]

"OL, protect yourselves. Defense, if the QB takes a knee, I better not see anything unsportsmanlike." Done - that's it. No other advice or restrictions on anyone.

Now.... let's say you're in the other camp, and you are going to tell the defense to take it easy - you HAVE to warn the offense that if they don't take a knee you are going to call USC (on the coach, of course).

I vastly prefer the first method, because if offense drops the snap, and you've told defense not to play, you've possibly deprived them of a chance to win the game. Speaking of unfair acts!

PS - offense up by 10, seconds to go, going for a TD? Are you SURE there wasn't holding on that play? (not serious)

[Snake~eyes]

I agree with mcrowder, I hate to tell the defense to take it easy, instead I tell the oline to protect themselves.

[Axe Man]

I agree with the other posts, it is still a live ball and the offense can do whatever they want with it. It is not our job to coach, thank the lord. I will tell the quarterback that if he is going to take a knee, please do it quickly after the snap.

[TBone6]

Wow..You find something on them. Illegal motion or false start or something. Your word is your word. This situation only makes the officials look like crap for trying to help out. You find something..Illegal snap or something during the false statement. Then you let the QB know, that you only did that because he didnt do what he told you he was going to do and making him look bad.

Next time. Dont say a word just stand close to the backs and observe..You sure there was'nt something on that play?
Offsides or something that the wings didnt get after seeing the wideout run down field?



[Edited by TBone6 on Oct 22nd, 2004 at 05:10 PM]

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by MJT
Towards end of game, team ahead by 10 or more, and they have the ball. Less than 1 minute left on the clock. You ask and they tell you they are going to take a knee.

You tell the defense "they are taking a knee" and give them a polite warning to "not rush hard." (THIS IS TAKEN FROM NASO MAGAZINE)

All is well until the offense, after saying they would take a knee, fakes it and throws a TD pass.

I think you give an USC foul, supported by 9-9 (unfair acts) Our crew has decided to take it one step further and tell the QB "I will tell the defense you are taking a knee. If you do not, you will receive an USC foul."

What do you think of this senario, and what our crew does?

Objectionable Conduct. 10 yards for misleading tactics, and a very stern, "Don't do that again."

[MJT]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Objectionable Conduct. 10 yards for misleading tactics, and a very stern, "Don't do that again."

I saw in an above post, you work in Canada. You must have different rules cuz objectionable conduct is not a foul in NF or NCAA. Sounds similar to unsportsmanlike conduct.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by MJT

I saw in an above post, you work in Canada. You must have different rules cuz objectionable conduct is not a foul in NF or NCAA. Sounds similar to unsportsmanlike conduct.

MJT, look at his post a little closer, near the lightbulb it says "Canadian Rules", this is onw of the disadvantages of the canadian rules, it often confuses everyone. Yo have to look who the poster is and make sure to read the entire post.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by MJT
You tell the defense "they are taking a knee" and give them a polite warning to "not rush hard." (THIS IS TAKEN FROM NASO MAGAZINE)

Bad advice from NASO.

"If he takes a knee, don't hit him."

USC would not nullify unless you penalized it under 9-9, which I don't think you can do just because the officials did something stupid.

[MJT]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

MJT, look at his post a little closer, near the lightbulb it says "Canadian Rules", this is onw of the disadvantages of the canadian rules, it often confuses everyone. Yo have to look who the poster is and make sure to read the entire post.

I saw you Canadian rules up there. I should have been more clear. That's what I meant by "you must have different rules" and why I asked in another post you made about how different Canadian rules are then NF or NCAA. Who's are they most like, NF, NCAA, or NFL?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
MJT, look at his post a little closer, near the lightbulb it says "Canadian Rules", this is onw of the disadvantages of the canadian rules, it often confuses everyone. Yo have to look who the poster is and make sure to read the entire post.

That's good advice - always check who the message author is, then you know how seriously to take the content of the message. I assure you that my posts are 100% valid in Canadian football.

As for one of the disadvantages in Cdn. fb, you are mistaken: I am not sure what you're talking about, but rest assured flagging 10 yards for OC is the proper call.

Here's what we have:

Objectionable Conduct: 10 yards. anything verbal towards an opponent, game official, etc..., misleading tactics, pretty much anything that makes a mockery of the game. Option to eject.

Unnecessary roughness: unnecessary contact with an opponent is 15 yards, plus automatic first down.

Rough play is a UR foul of a severe nature and is 25 yards plus ejection, plus automatic first down.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by MJT
I saw you Canadian rules up there. I should have been more clear. That's what I meant by "you must have different rules" and why I asked in another post you made about how different Canadian rules are then NF or NCAA. Who's are they most like, NF, NCAA, or NFL?

I don't think they're like any of those three. I've learned alot US football thru here and we have many different principles.

Penalty application points are: Previous Line of Scrimmage (PLS), Point Ball Held (PBH), Point Ball Dead (PBD), Point of Possession (PP), and Point of Foul (PF). Many distances are pretty much the same, holding is 10, false start is 5. PI is 15 from PLS unless it's DPI < 15y from PLS, then it's PF + 1D. The timing rules are different. We have a 3 minute warning when timing rules change. All in all, it is a very exciting game, and often comes down to who's up to bat last. (There is a place for coaching strategy and clock manamgent. And yes, the officials are the best at clock management - much better than the coaches. )

Oh ya, we play with 3 downs. (Except pop warner which is 4 to help them learn the game better.)

[Theisey]

This advice by NASO is suspect.
Unless that QB himself told the defense he was taking a knee, I don't see a foul on this play.
If we suspect that the QB is going to take a knee, we do not tell the defense anything and we simply come in harder if on a wing, and the R/U become very vocal as the play ends. We as a crew to NOT inquire about what play is going to be run.

I much prefer the NCAA rule, if Mr QB simulates placing the knee down, we KILL the play. NF should adopt the same to that so as to remove this play from some coaches play book.

[Edited by Theisey on Oct 23rd, 2004 at 08:42 PM]

[Forksref]

Originally posted by MJT
Towards end of game, team ahead by 10 or more, and they have the ball. Less than 1 minute left on the clock. You ask and they tell you they are going to take a knee.

You tell the defense "they are taking a knee" and give them a polite warning to "not rush hard." (THIS IS TAKEN FROM NASO MAGAZINE)

All is well until the offense, after saying they would take a knee, fakes it and throws a TD pass.

I think you give an USC foul, supported by 9-9 (unfair acts) Our crew has decided to take it one step further and tell the QB "I will tell the defense you are taking a knee. If you do not, you will receive an USC foul."

What do you think of this senario, and what our crew does?

I never tell either team anything. The O-line should always be ready to protect themselves and the QB. If I tell the D that the O is going to take a knee and they don't, then I am the one who has gotten himself in trouble. The O can do whatever they want within the rules. I've had coaches upset with their opponent who ran up the score in the first half. So be it. That is a sportmanship issue, not a rules issue.

[Mountainman]

The only reason the QB is telling you "I'm taking a knee" is to get the protection of the 'quick whistle'. All the rules remain unchanged for the offense/defense. Giving advice to either team on how to play the next down is coaching.