Some coaches just dont get it!

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by jaybird

I don't know about "the dumbest person", there is at least one other that would get some votes, but what he wrote could qualify as some of the "dumbest statements".
Be prepared for a lengthy rebuttal.

I think he's trying to make a point.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by jaybird

Be prepared for a lengthy rebuttal.

Why? I've always considered things said about someone but not directed at that person to be proper decorum, and in some circumstances even a good practice. I don't understand why Robert would want to respond.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by jaybird

You are joking, right?
This sounds like a statement that a coach or fan would say.

He said "I warned him and almost flagged him again but i held back knowng a 15yd UC penalty in OT would basically decide the game and do so against his kids who were, despite their 4 yr old tantrum throwing coach, playing clean hard football"

So it seems as if he was going to call the foul but didn't want to "basically decide the game" by making the call. Team A would have most likely lost if he called the foul. That means Team B would have most likely won.

So if someone is worried about costing one team the game by calling a game deciding foul isn't he costing the other team the game by not calling it? Why doesn't he just call the fouls and not worry about which team is getting helped or hurt?

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by jaybird

You are joking, right?
This sounds like a statement that a coach or fan would say.

I pretty sure I remember reading a similar statement in Referee magazine recently. While I personally think it's a logical fallacy, I understand the sentiment.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Bull. A coach saying things about the officials when he full well knows the officials are within earshot is being a passive aggressive coward. The "Oh I wasn't talking to you" line is garbage.

The huddle is not a sanctuary. Act like a jerk and don't be surprised if you get held accountable. Gaming the officials is not going to win you very many points in my book.

I had a guy do this last week. He called a timeout and came out to hold his conference between the hash marks. He started out by addressing me in this passive-aggressive (read: cowardly) manner -- by saying very loudly from his huddle "I've been really nice about it, but the penalty ratio..."

That's as far as he got. I told him to address his players or get off the field and then I turned my back and walked away from him.

Good sportsmanship is expected. Doing what some of these coaches do isn't acceptable and I simply won't tolerate it. They can give me any rating they like, too, it doesn't change how I officiate.

[chymechowder]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Bull. A coach saying things about the officials when he full well knows the officials are within earshot is being a passive aggressive coward. The "Oh I wasn't talking to you" line is garbage.

The huddle is not a sanctuary. Act like a jerk and don't be surprised if you get held accountable. Gaming the officials is not going to win you very many points in my book.

I agree with your first statement. But my response is: So what? If a coach wants to be a whiner, or indeed, a passive agressive coward, I honestly don't care. I work the wings, and if a coach (or members of his staff) wants to stand behind me and complain about how awful the calls are all day, I just ignore it.

I'm not going to let them intimidate me. At the same time, I'm not going to teach them a lesson or try to hold them accountable (just) for being jerks.

Now, if they're in my face and screaming, invading personal space, that's a little different. But even then, I'll calmly tell him that he needs to step back. If he wishes to have a calm exchange or explanation, fine. But if he only wants to rant and rave, he can do so all game as far as I care--so long as he's not interfering with my ability to do my job.

Not to criticize other officials, but I feel some of them have a little bit of "cowboy" in them. They're a little too quick, in my opinion, to put their authority on display. Or they get in screaming matches with coaches.

As the late, great Patrick Swayze says in the classic "Roadhouse":

"If somebody gets in your face and calls you a *********, I want you to be nice. Ask him to walk. Be nice. If he won't walk, walk him. But be nice. If you can't walk him, one of the others will help you, and you'll both be nice. I want you to remember that it's a job. It's nothing personal."



Movie quotes aside, I think RG's distinction is an important one. If a coach has a finger in my face, or if he's screaming for the whole field to hear that the Ref is a piece of ****, then yes, we've got USC. But if he's throwing a hissy fit (behind me) about a CALL being awful, I've got nothing.

[Welpe]

Well that depends entirely upon what is actually said doesn't it? I have a pretty high tolerance for what I will put up with and I certainly don't have rabbit ears but I'm not going to ignore something just to avoid confrontation. I'm not trying to teach a coach any kind of lesson but I'm not going to hesitate to flag him when his conduct crosses the line.

Sure, he can throw a fit behind me...to a point. But if he violates one of the three Ps, he's more than likely getting dinged. Questioning my integrity? Pretty much automatic.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

Not to criticize other officials, but I feel some of them have a little bit of "cowboy" in them. They're a little too quick, in my opinion, to put their authority on display. Or they get in screaming matches with coaches.

I missed this but it is worth responding to.

Conversely, I think there are too many officials that are willing to be doormats.

[jjrye22]

Question for chymechowder
Do you umpire baseball?
Baseball umps seem to put up with a lot more 'in your face' screaming than I would tolerate (I only do football).
It seems the standards for baseball are set quite differently than the standards for football as to how a coach can interact with the officials.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I missed this but it is worth responding to.

Conversely, I think there are too many officials that are willing to be doormats.

Yup.

And football coaches and players get away with far more than baseball players and coaches do. I flagged a kid for taunting a few weeks ago and my first thought was that in a baseball game (with no intermediate penalty) I would've immediately ejected him. An assistant that drew a 15-yard USC a few weeks earlier got persona "you're horrible" and would've been ejected from a baseball game. No cowboy mentality, just a difference in the expectations and the proper responses of the sports.

Basketball coaches, I think, are the best behaved of all of them. They act up too much, they get a technical (which comes a lot quicker than an USC in football) and get to sit down knowing they can't get another one without getting run.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by whitehat

I warned him and almost flagged him again but i held back knowng a 15yd UC penalty in OT would basically decide the game and do so against his kids who were, despite their 4 yr old tantrum throwing coach, playing clean hard football.

It is a team game. The coach is a team member. The team wins or loses, not the players. If a team member deserves a USC foul then he should get a USC foul.

It seems like you ended up deciding the game. If you called the foul like you should have then that team would have lost. You didn't call it and they won.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

That must've been something if the things he said to his own team in their own huddle about one or more officials could be UC! Seriously, I have trouble imagining such as flag-worthy. Was he facing you or another official, or was he just talking loud and overheard?

I've always considered things said about an official or an opponent or a bystander but not directed at that person to be a completely legal, and in some circumstances even a good practice. Even if it's totally insincere, it's a way a coach can boost his players' morale -- cursing the officials, a gust of wind, whatever -- by saying they're just unlucky victims and are playing fine. The next day he might look at film and say, "You guys played lousy, the officials were right,...", but at the moment, the right thing to do is to put the blame elsewhere so the players don't get discouraged.

As to his other tantrum throwing, consider the possibility that he's a vicar for his team. He may tell his players that he wants discipline on their part, that they're not to curse the opponents or officials or teammates, and that he will be the "bad guy" who will rant, rave, and draw USC penalties in their stead, saving them from embarrassment. So rather than serving as an example for his team, he's offering himself as an anode or a rodeo clown. I'm not saying that's the case with him, just that it could be the case with some coaches.

Robert Goodman is by far the dumbest person here...do you guys see what he wrote? Is he joking or what? I guess he really thinks that people can say whatever they want. I didn't think anyone could ever think that way. Obviously RG does not get it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Robert Goodman is by far the dumbest person here...

No, I'd say you've trumped anything, anyone else has done.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

No, I'd say you've trumped anything, anyone else has done.

Obviously you not able to understand the post I made. I guess you are not as smart as you think you are.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Obviously you not able to understand the post I made. I guess you are not as smart as you think you are.

I understand perfectly. You're an @$$, just like I always thought you were.