Some coaches just dont get it!

[whitehat]

Just some Zebra venting....
Had one of those games last night that between the white lines was hard fought, clean and was decided in OT. However, from the pre-game conference on I could tell the visitingng coach was going to be a problem. He began begging, whining from the get go and I told my wing on his sideline to keep him back and keep a tight reign on him.

I flagged him early with a sidlene warning to get his attention. Seems every snap he began yelling for a flag, although never using any foul language his constant whining and "out of control" sideline decorum just made me shake my head. I did flag him late for an UC foul he very loudly objected to the lack of a flag, wanting a late hit on his side.
Then in OT, his team is on Defense. During a timeout he comes out to the huddle and begins sarcastically whinning and yelling loudly about how "they " have a 12 guys inthe huddle right now, (A only had 11) and "WE are going to flollow the rules and only have 11, UNBELIEVABLE....ya da ya da..." I warned him and almost flagged him again but i held back knowng a 15yd UC penalty in OT would basically decide the game and do so against his kids who were, despite their 4 yr old tantrum throwing coach, playing clean hard football.

The immature coach's team ended up winning the game and all he kept saying was "Unbeleivable" referring to our "incompetent officiating."

I am more than willing to explain and reason with a coach who will do so properly (as the other coach did last night). But this guy, no place for him in a leadership role among teens. I fear there are too many like him out there and they just don't get it!!

Actualy if you tally the fouls his team came out way ahead but nothing would make him happy. All he wanted to do was argue and degrade the officials. I am fairly objective when it comes to critiquing my crew and I thought with a few minor exceptions we did a good solid job.

Bottom line, AD's need to take a hard look at the conduct of their coaches. I know as a parent I would not want that type of coach with his poor attitude, argumentative personality and constant yelling and whining to coach my kid.

thanks for listening.....

[johnnyg08]

Our state allows the crew to subit an incident report to the high school league...if enough crews do this the state will see a pattern and then they can work w/ the school and coach to address the behavior...that's what I'd do.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Bottom line, AD's need to take a hard look at the conduct of their coaches. I know as a parent I would not want that type of coach with his poor attitude, argumentative personality and constant yelling and whining to coach my kid.

thanks for listening.....

Why? Did the coach get flagged for USC? Did he get tossed? Nothing to look at.

IMO, you could have taken care of business better.

[ajmc]

It's only human to want to avoid taking the game out of the player's hands, but, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" and sadly a jerk will stay a jerk until he's made to stop being a jerk.

For what it's worth, when dealing with the guy who just won't stop with the smart apple comments, you can take him aside and offer him a choice; coach his team from the sideline and keep his comments to himself, or say whatever he wants, whenever he wants, as loud as he wants from the parking lot.

Of course you have to be willing to absolutely back that up.

[whitehat]

Yes, as stated in my post, he did get an UC flag. and for the most part he quieted down a little, yet kept up his little digs and whinning at every opportunity. Just because you don't toss a coach doesn't mean there is "nothing to look at." Mbryon I take it you disagree?

All things considered, in the context of what he did and did not do we (I) handled it appropriatly and would not rethink it now to eject him.

My point is not to rethink what we did but to simply vent a bit that too many coaches just do not model the behavior that teens need to see despite their being (marginally) within the technical rules of conduct. To see coaches whine and beg and constantly complain (none of which in themselves, IMO, warrant an ejection) is not good for the game.

Do any of you toss a coach based strictly on the rule? Go read the rule and then answer honestly and your answer will be "no." Each of us has our thresholds and tolerance levels with coaches. Actually I am one to be fairly quick to flag coaches for UC.

I just wish coaches would keep things in perpsective. It is after all a game!

I am considering an email to the AD about the coaches conduct.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by whitehat

It is after all a game! I am considering an email to the AD about the coaches conduct.

If after you've had a chance to reflect on the steps you took (and didn't take) and are comfortable with your decisions, you were correct. For what it's worth, I'd suggest you let the urge to email the AD pass. There's only a weak 50/50 chance your observations will be appreciated, and a lot less that they'll make any kind of a difference.

As you note, "It is after all a game' and when the game is over, it's over.

[bisonlj]

Raising this issue with the AD and/or state association would be playoff suicide in our state because coaches primarily decide our fate on their annual vote. Not only could that vote give you a bad vote but he could get his friends in the coaching ranks to give you a bad vote as well (no control over which coaches vote for which crews). Just another reason why our system needs a major overhaul.

[johnnyg08]

the coach ratings are a joke (what do they know about officiating?)...if he doesn't like your calls, you're not going to get a good rating anyway...simply because he's mad.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Yes, as stated in my post, he did get an UC flag. and for the most part he quieted down a little, yet kept up his little digs and whinning at every opportunity. Just because you don't toss a coach doesn't mean there is "nothing to look at." Mbryon I take it you disagree?

If you're addressing me, then no, I agree. I somehow missed the part of your post where you said you flagged the USC (saw only the sideline warning part).

I agree with the principle of doing what we can to keep coaches and players in the game. As a general rule, the contests are for the participants, and nobody wants an official who throws people out at the drop of a hat.

On the other hand, every league has its well-known bad actors. They've generally been around for a while, and they know how to push buttons to get their way. Until the officials association mans up sufficiently to enforce the rules with these clowns, they will continue to misbehave and be an annoyance for everyone. Sure, passive-aggressive is cowardly; but if we don't deal with it, who's the coward now?

It sounds as if you felt it was a borderline case, and those are always frustrating. Clearly bad behavior, but you feel it didn't warrant an EJ.

[kdf5]

In our game last Friday the home team is up big and the gap is still increasing. The D coordinator wants our LJ to call the visitors for encroachment. When he doesn't get the call he says we're a bunch of "dickweeds". Now, I don't care who you are, that's funny!

Coaches are coaches. Some have more class than others but when they cross the line ding 'em, otherwise keep your skin thick.

[ajmc]

It's really a shame when these topics turn into, "Some officials just don't get it". Officials express their opinions about relevant issues, which can be helpful and educational, or sometimes not. I would submit the only times the input sinks to the level of "stupid" is when an individual presumes what they do, say or think is the absolute only way to act, speak or think.

At some point we all go through a period (hopefully really brief) when we think we've learned everything and somehow stop leaving an odor behind in the bathroom. For the great majority we quickly realize that's just an illusion and get our heads back out of our dumpers.

Sadly, some seem to linger in their fantasy and actually believe that their opinions are somehow worth more than anyone elses. "Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one and it's just a little different than anyone else's".

This forum works best when we all keep our minds on football, rather than personalities. Either you agree with what someone opines, or you don't. We come from different areas and sometimes do things differently (different, not necessarily better). There's no need for "cheap shots" and nobody worth impressing is impressed by cheap shots, which seem to often originate in the same circles. We all have the all the opportunities to hear really stupid remarks on Friday nights or Saturday afternoons, so all the "bush league" smart aleck nonsense is just....unnecessary.

To those guys who think you know it all, you don't and if you keep doing what we do long enough, you'll mature enough to understand that. Unfortunately, some never find a way to get over that hump, so you really need to work on it.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Then in OT, his team is on Defense. During a timeout he comes out to the huddle and begins sarcastically whinning and yelling loudly about how "they " have a 12 guys inthe huddle right now, (A only had 11) and "WE are going to flollow the rules and only have 11, UNBELIEVABLE....ya da ya da..." I warned him and almost flagged him again but i held back knowng a 15yd UC penalty in OT would basically decide the game and do so against his kids who were, despite their 4 yr old tantrum throwing coach, playing clean hard football.

That must've been something if the things he said to his own team in their own huddle about one or more officials could be UC! Seriously, I have trouble imagining such as flag-worthy. Was he facing you or another official, or was he just talking loud and overheard?

I've always considered things said about an official or an opponent or a bystander but not directed at that person to be a completely legal, and in some circumstances even a good practice. Even if it's totally insincere, it's a way a coach can boost his players' morale -- cursing the officials, a gust of wind, whatever -- by saying they're just unlucky victims and are playing fine. The next day he might look at film and say, "You guys played lousy, the officials were right,...", but at the moment, the right thing to do is to put the blame elsewhere so the players don't get discouraged.

As to his other tantrum throwing, consider the possibility that he's a vicar for his team. He may tell his players that he wants discipline on their part, that they're not to curse the opponents or officials or teammates, and that he will be the "bad guy" who will rant, rave, and draw USC penalties in their stead, saving them from embarrassment. So rather than serving as an example for his team, he's offering himself as an anode or a rodeo clown. I'm not saying that's the case with him, just that it could be the case with some coaches.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

That must've been something if the things he said to his own team in their own huddle about one or more officials could be UC! ...
I've always considered things said about an official or an opponent or a bystander but not directed at that person to be a completely legal, and in some circumstances even a good practice.

Bull. A coach saying things about the officials when he full well knows the officials are within earshot is being a passive aggressive coward. The "Oh I wasn't talking to you" line is garbage.

The huddle is not a sanctuary. Act like a jerk and don't be surprised if you get held accountable. Gaming the officials is not going to win you very many points in my book.

[jaybird]

It seems like you ended up deciding the game. If you called the foul like you should have then that team would have lost. You didn't call it and they won.

You are joking, right?
This sounds like a statement that a coach or fan would say.

[jaybird]

Robert Goodman is by far the dumbest person here...do you guys see what he wrote?

I don't know about "the dumbest person", there is at least one other that would get some votes, but what he wrote could qualify as some of the "dumbest statements".
Be prepared for a lengthy rebuttal.