Penalty enforcement FED

[Durham]

How often do you call this? I ask, because many people I have talked to believe that it is either a 15 or nothing. I know the 5 is in the rule book, but I am inclined to lean towards their thinking in that in practice it is either a facemask or it is not. After all it is a rule intended to ensure the safety of players.

Thoughts!

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by Durham

How often do you call this? I ask, because many people I have talked to believe that it is either a 15 or nothing. I know the 5 is in the rule book, but I am inclined to lean towards their thinking in that in practice it is either a facemask or it is not. After all it is a rule intended to ensure the safety of players.

Thoughts!

I think the 5 yarder was added years ago to prevent the 15 yarders. If it's a facemask then call it, whether it's 5 or 15 and if you're in doubt, it's 15, I believe anyway. This ain't the NFL, it's HS and our number one concern is player safety.

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Although the original question wasn't specifically about a facemask foul, and in practice a 5 yard facemask foul would most normally apply to a live ball situation, there is absolutely nothing that restricts such a foul to live ball only.

The OP wasn't specifically about a face mask foul?!! That's exactly what it was about. A 5 yard face mask penalty enforcement. Man, you need to work on your reading and comprehension!

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

First and 10

RB runs for three yards, right at the end of the run there is a 5 yard facemask penalty.

Question: After the penalty is enforced, is it 1st down and 2 or is it 2nd down and 2? Or neither? Why?

Thanks guys. Still trying to completely grasp penalty enforcement...it's not as easy as I once thought it was.

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by Durham

How often do you call this? I ask, because many people I have talked to believe that it is either a 15 or nothing. I know the 5 is in the rule book, but I am inclined to lean towards their thinking in that in practice it is either a facemask or it is not. After all it is a rule intended to ensure the safety of players.

Thoughts!

I wonder if the confusion is because the NCAA and NFL have eliminated the 5 yard foul.

Does the hand brush the face mask? No foul.
Does the hand grasp the face mask, but not pull or twist it in any way? 5 yards.
Does the hand grasp the face mask, and pull or twist it? Do you see the helmet move in any direction in any manner as a result of the face mask? 15 yards.

I think my games have had as many 5 yard fouls as 15 this year. I mostly do youth games, though. They are pretty good about immediately letting go.

[johnnyg08]

So it would be 1st and 2 yards to go? Thanks fellas...other good comments on here as well. Thanks!!

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by jaybird

The OP wasn't specifically about a face mask foul?!! That's exactly what it was about. A 5 yard face mask penalty enforcement. Man, you need to work on your reading and comprehension!

Seems to me Jaybird, the purpose of the question was about down and distance and the penalty being a facemask was totally incidental. What you need to do is get that really stupid chip off your shoulder, it keeps forcing you to make yourself appear as a petty bead counter. The point of my original comment, which obviously escaped your superior powers of observation, was simply that although dead ball face mask penalties are usually of the 15 yard variety, there is NOTHING (rule wise) that precludes calling a 5 yarder.

[jaybird]

..your superior powers of observation..

Thanks for the compliment, Alf!

[jaybird]

5 yard facemask
How often do you call this?

Every time it happens.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jaybird

Every time it happens.

Should read: "Every time I see it happen."

Or what, you're flagging it in my games?

[stegenref]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

1st and 2.

After a liveball penalty is enforced the down will be the same as the down in which the penalty occured unless:

Can someone cite a reference for this statement?

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Although the original question wasn't specifically about a facemask foul, and in practice a 5 yard facemask foul would most normally apply to a live ball situation, there is absolutely nothing that restricts such a foul to live ball only.

That's what happens when you take common sense out of the equation and try to apply only the letter of the rule.

[Rich]

In practice, 5 yard facemask fouls are extremely rare.

Any movement of the head/helmet should simply be a personal foul. I wouldn't be opposed to removing the 5 yard mask from the NFHS code and simply ignoring the grab and release without a head turn/tackle by the mask.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

In practice, 5 yard facemask fouls are extremely rare.

Any movement of the head/helmet should simply be a personal foul. I wouldn't be opposed to removing the 5 yard mask from the NFHS code and simply ignoring the grab and release without a head turn/tackle by the mask.

For what it's worth, the SPECIFIC purpose for adding the 5 yard facemask foul was that NFHS concluded that "incidental" type interactions with a face mask were being routinely ignored because the severity of the penalty was not merited by the type of incidental contact.

Because NFHS wants to discourage any and all contact with the face mask, the 5 yard penalty was added to encourage penalizing less severe grasping of the mask. The "Penalty" description for NF: 9-4-3h differentiates between the two as, "incidental grasping-5 yards" and "grasping AND twisting, turning or pulling the face mask of helmet opening-15 yards".

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ajmc

For what it's worth, the SPECIFIC purpose for adding the 5 yard facemask foul was that NFHS concluded that "incidental" type interactions with a face mask were being routinely ignored because the severity of the penalty was not merited by the type of incidental contact.

Because NFHS wants to discourage any and all contact with the face mask, the 5 yard penalty was added to encourage penalizing less severe grasping of the mask. The "Penalty" description for NF: 9-4-3h differentiates between the two as, "incidental grasping-5 yards" and "grasping AND twisting, turning or pulling the face mask of helmet opening-15 yards".

And they could've simply eliminated the grasping as a foul. Now we have coaches screaming every time a hand touches the mask -- and that's NOT a foul.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

And they could've simply eliminated the grasping as a foul. Now we have coaches screaming every time a hand touches the mask -- and that's NOT a foul.

If memory serves, the same coaches did the same amount of screaming before the 5 yard penalty was added. If nothing else they've been consistent, a prime example that consistency is not always a good thing.