Retracting a Penalty Decision

[Fan10]

I saw an odd sequence of events in the Alabama/Fla International game last night. Following an Alabama touchdown, UA committed a false start on the extra point. The ball was moved back to the 8 for the retry. Then, on the second attempt, as the kick went through the goal posts, one of the officials under the posts signaled good while the other one came charging out from under the posts into the end zone with no signal. Instead, he was counting players.

As the teams were going off the field, he kept counting, and as he finished, he dropped a flag. Penn Wagers, the referee, then gave the signal for illegal participation against Fla International. At this point, both teams had already reached the sideline. And, Wagers went over to the UA sideline and found Alabama Coach Nick Saban. The two talked for probably a minute after which Wagers turned on the microphone and announced that we would go 1/2the distance to the goal and retry.

Saban then sent his offense onto the field to go for 2 as the umpire marked the ball at the 4 (Remember that the ball had been moved back to the 8 because of UA's false start). At that point, a very upset Saban called timeout and went to Wagers asking why it was being marked at the 4. After a short conversation, Saban then sent the extra point team back onto the field, and the third PAT was good.

Obviously, Saban momentarily forgot that the line of scrimmage was the 8, or he otherwise would have declined. I obviously don't know what was said between Saban and Wagers during the conversation they had about the penalty option. I was curious as to whether Wagers told him that the ball would be marked at the 4 or whether he told him it would be half the distance. And, even if he did tell him 1/2 the distance, it's still Saban's responsibility to know that 1/2 the distance is the 4, not the 1 1/2.

I'm wondering though if it is possible for a coach (or a captain) to retract their decision if it is obvious that they were confused about what exactly they were agreeing to.

[jaybird]

If the first kick try was good, why did they accept the penalty and then end up kicking the try again? Proof that college coaches can be as dim as some high school coaches.

[Fan10]

Originally Posted by jaybird

If the first kick try was good, why did they accept the penalty and then end up kicking the try again? Proof that college coaches can be as dim as some high school coaches.

He thought that he was getting the ball at the 1 1/2 and wanted to go for 2 from there. When he realized it was at the 4, he realized his mistake.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Fan10

He thought that he was getting the ball at the 1 1/2 and wanted to go for 2 from there. When he realized it was at the 4, he realized his mistake.

That doesn't answer jaybird's question. After that "realization," it was still not too late to decline the penalty.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by mbyron

That doesn't answer jaybird's question. After that "realization," it was still not too late to decline the penalty.

NF:2-32-5-c, clearly designates the "Captain" to "represent his team during: (c) Penalty decisions following a foul". NF:10-1, states, "a captain's decision may not be revoked".

Although it's fairly common practice to explain penalty options to a captain, within earshot of his coach who may subsequently advise the captain on what decision to make, at the NFHS level, the actual choice should be made by the captain. Although the captain may be delivering the preferences and instructions of the coach (100%) the actual official decision should be delivered by the captain.

[jaybird]

..the actual official decision should be delivered by the captain.

Coach: I want to decline the penalty.
Referee: Sorry coach, I can't accept that. I have to have a decision from a captain.
Coach: Both captains were injuried and they are at the hospital.
Referee: Go get one of them for me.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ajmc

NF:2-32-5-c, clearly designates the "Captain" to "represent his team during: (c) Penalty decisions following a foul". NF:10-1, states, "a captain's decision may not be revoked".

Although it's fairly common practice to explain penalty options to a captain, within earshot of his coach who may subsequently advise the captain on what decision to make, at the NFHS level, the actual choice should be made by the captain. Although the captain may be delivering the preferences and instructions of the coach (100%) the actual official decision should be delivered by the captain.

Rulebook officiating lacking common sense.

On complex penalties or when I'm close to the team bench, I ask the coach every time. It's quicker and leaves no room for the kid screwing it up.

Rule #1: Do not let the kid screw up by making the wrong choice.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Fan10

I saw an odd sequence of events in the Alabama/Fla International game last night. Following an Alabama touchdown, UA committed a false start on the extra point. The ball was moved back to the 8 for the retry. Then, on the second attempt, as the kick went through the goal posts, one of the officials under the posts signaled good while the other one came charging out from under the posts into the end zone with no signal. Instead, he was counting players.

As the teams were going off the field, he kept counting, and as he finished, he dropped a flag. Penn Wagers, the referee, then gave the signal for illegal participation against Fla International. At this point, both teams had already reached the sideline. And, Wagers went over to the UA sideline and found Alabama Coach Nick Saban. The two talked for probably a minute after which Wagers turned on the microphone and announced that we would go 1/2the distance to the goal and retry.

Saban then sent his offense onto the field to go for 2 as the umpire marked the ball at the 4 (Remember that the ball had been moved back to the 8 because of UA's false start). At that point, a very upset Saban called timeout and went to Wagers asking why it was being marked at the 4. After a short conversation, Saban then sent the extra point team back onto the field, and the third PAT was good.

Obviously, Saban momentarily forgot that the line of scrimmage was the 8, or he otherwise would have declined. I obviously don't know what was said between Saban and Wagers during the conversation they had about the penalty option. I was curious as to whether Wagers told him that the ball would be marked at the 4 or whether he told him it would be half the distance. And, even if he did tell him 1/2 the distance, it's still Saban's responsibility to know that 1/2 the distance is the 4, not the 1 1/2.

I'm wondering though if it is possible for a coach (or a captain) to retract their decision if it is obvious that they were confused about what exactly they were agreeing to.

Is it ever obvious? What if they'd sent out their regular offense just to see what defense they would face, and then, "Oops...I meant to decline the penalty."?

[Big2Cat]

If you watch in most NCAA games, like Ohio State v. USC for example...the referee only looked to the coaches for penalty decisions anymore. He didn't ask for captains--just looked to the coach and went from there.

[jaybird]

The NFL guys do this as well.
I guess we are to surmise that teenagers are better capable of making penalty decisions than 20 or 30 year olds.