Ending the Half

[KWH]

Originally Posted by michrefdh

The common sense officiating thing would be to not start the clock until the snap in that situation.

I'm a big fan of common sense applications of rules, sometimes getting too technical gets in the way of being fair and officiating by the spirit of the rules. If you wind the clock and then have to have an untimed down after the clock reads 0:00, you are just asking for confusion and problems.

WRONG!
Using your "common sense application of the rules" and thereby completly disregarding the direction of the rules book, "could" conceivably allow the offense to get in two quick plays!
This application would not only be an incorrect timing allocation but could give the offense an unearned additional play.
I think you are much better following the "time proven" written timing rules provided in the Rules Book for this, and any other situation.

[Theisey]

I've not have had the pleasure of this situation in any game in my long career, so for those who have, just what did you do?

Let's just use the same scenario, with 6 seconds left, you whistle the RFP and wind the clock, team-A just stands there... Time Expires... the horn goes off.

Did you now... keep the teams on the field... issue the whoopy-doo signal (*S1) and whistle in another RFP?

Or did you just tell team-A (qb) that you have 19 seconds to snap the ball?

Just curious. I know the rule, just not sure how to apply it.

[Robert Goodman]

If the captains failed to explain your message to the teams, or they forgot, and there was some visible or audible indication of official time's expiration, and the players started to look confused, couldn't you just yell, "Play on!"?

Robert

[KWH]

Thiesey-
Turn on the Mike and announce: An accepted live ball foul occured during the last timed down of the period. By rule, the period shall be extended by one untimed down. (The whoopy-doo (*S1) signal shall be given during the announcment! )
If no mike, gather the players and explain the situation, give them a short moment, and give the ready-for-play.
Of course, if either team requests a time-out, (and has one available) it should be granted!



PM to Robert Goodman: Have you been hitting the sauce???

[michrefdh]

Originally Posted by Theisey

I've not have had the pleasure of this situation in any game in my long career, so for those who have, just what did you do?

Let's just use the same scenario, with 6 seconds left, you whistle the RFP and wind the clock, team-A just stands there... Time Expires... the horn goes off.

Did you now... keep the teams on the field... issue the whoopy-doo signal (*S1) and whistle in another RFP?

Or did you just tell team-A (qb) that you have 19 seconds to snap the ball?

Just curious. I know the rule, just not sure how to apply it.

I actually was working wing several years ago with similar situation (matter of a few seconds left, can't remember exactly how many) and my white hat did exactly what I put in my previous answer, above with regards to "common sense". Started the clock on the snap instead of winding it, rather than running out time and doing a "whoopty-doo" untimed down, and confusing the players, coaches and fans. To me thats still the most logical common sense thing to do in that situation. I don't think anybody even gave that situation a second thought.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by KWH

PM to Robert Goodman: Have you been hitting the sauce???

Actually I think I'm one of few in this thread who isn't making a big tsimmes out of something that doesn't deserve it. Why should extreme measures be needed to explain this situation more than any other one in the game? If the players don't do their part in understanding what's going on when things were explained along with enforcement of the penalty, that's their problem.

My perspective may be colored by the types of games I'm used to, where there's no official time visible, and little or no audience. I think many of your opinions are colored by the opposite perspective to the degree that you think you're emceeing a game show rather than administering a game. As far as I'm concerned, your obligation is to the players, and any other benefit that someone who happens to be in the vicinity derives from your job is a mere side effect. If the clock goes to 0:00, the fire siren, church bells, and cannon all go off, and the crowd goes wild because they don't understand what's going on, that's their problem, and if the players are influenced by them, that's their problem.

Robert

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Theisey

Just curious. I know the rule, just not sure how to apply it.

For what it's worth. Include advising the offended captain of when the clock will start if the penalty is accepted, and what will happen if the clock expires (untimed down or not) so he can make the proper decision. If the situation calls for an untimed down if the clock expires, I explain that fact to the captain of the opponent, usually in the presence of most of his teammates, so they are appropriately prepared for what may happen.

If the clock runs out and no play starts, I'll stop the clock, announce to both teams that we're going to have an untimed down, give the appropriate signal and whistle the ball RFP and life goes on.

[KWH]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Actually I think I'm one of few in this thread who isn't making a big tsimmes out of something that doesn't deserve it. Why should extreme measures be needed to explain this situation more than any other one in the game? If the players don't do their part in understanding what's going on when things were explained along with enforcement of the penalty, that's their problem.

My perspective may be colored by the types of games I'm used to, where there's no official time visible, and little or no audience. I think many of your opinions are colored by the opposite perspective to the degree that you think you're emceeing a game show rather than administering a game. As far as I'm concerned, your obligation is to the players, and any other benefit that someone who happens to be in the vicinity derives from your job is a mere side effect. If the clock goes to 0:00, the fire siren, church bells, and cannon all go off, and the crowd goes wild because they don't understand what's going on, that's their problem, and if the players are influenced by them, that's their problem.

Robert

big tsimmrs? Extreme measures? emceeing a game show? Yelling "Play on" after the clock hits ZERO and the ball has yet to be snapped?"

Robert, I truly believe you may need to look in the mirror.
Games are played by the rules and your job is to admisiter the rules as they are written. I believe it may be benificial for you to re-read Rule 3 in both the Rules Book and the Case Book, actually listen to officials with more experiance, AND stop trying to re-invent the wheel! If you do so, it may be possible someday for you to advance beyond the level of games where "there's no official time visible, and little or no audience".

[Mike L]

You're depending on the captains to figure things like this out? Really? Yelling "play on" despite everyone thinking the game is over. Now, that will keep everyone from being confused all right.
How about instead the WH just doing his job and going quickly to both benches to give the coaches an explanation before winding the clock? If the coaches fail to communicate to their players, well that's not my problem is it? My concern about fans knowing what's going on is really low on the priority scale.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

(But I will crucify the coach who uses that to his advantage)

What is the procedure for crucifiction?


And what is the signal?

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by Theisey

I've not have had the pleasure of this situation in any game in my long career, so for those who have, just what did you do?

Let's just use the same scenario, with 6 seconds left, you whistle the RFP and wind the clock, team-A just stands there... Time Expires... the horn goes off.

Did you now... keep the teams on the field... issue the whoopy-doo signal (*S1) and whistle in another RFP?

Or did you just tell team-A (qb) that you have 19 seconds to snap the ball?

Just curious. I know the rule, just not sure how to apply it.

I've had this happen a couple of times. In the first situation, I told both teams before the ready that if time expired, the offense was still going to be allowed to play the down. And they understood and played the down.

In the second situation, the was SO MUCH confusion that I blew my whistle, explained to both teams (and both coaches) that we had to run an untimed down. I then blew another ready-for-play once they all understood that one more play needed to be run. They didn't understand WHY but they played the down.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Forksref

What is the procedure for crucifiction?


And what is the signal?

No specific mechanic. The signal is like UC, but droop your head.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

If the clock runs out and no play starts, I'll stop the clock,

Because you have one of those fancy ones that go into negative numbers?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mikesears

I've had this happen a couple of times. In the first situation, I told both teams before the ready that if time expired, the offense was still going to be allowed to play the down. And they understood and played the down.

In the second situation, the was SO MUCH confusion that I blew my whistle, explained to both teams (and both coaches) that we had to run an untimed down. I then blew another ready-for-play once they all understood that one more play needed to be run. They didn't understand WHY but they played the down.

Any idea why so much difference in understanding between the two games?

If this is really a problem for some, and you have visible official time, then you can do as they do in labor contract negotiations, and stop the clock at 1 sec. before "midnight".

Robert

[BGroovy]

This seems like a communication issue with players and coaches. Rule 3-4-2-b state you start the clock with the RFP. Would it be best to notify captains and coaches immediately, let the offense line up and then start the clock? :06 seconds should be enough time to get a play off. The defense caused the foul so it should be up to the coach to send in subs during penalty enforcement to match up with the offense.