Didn't like the ending

[JugglingReferee]

Wednesday night, BV semi-final this year. About as well-matched game as you can get. Game ended up 60-56. Crowd in the game for the whole thing. Coaches animated, but nothing illegal. Dealt with some of everything, including fouled out players, blood, some very close block/charge situations (we were 4 for 4, according to our evaluator ). Travels as though the kids already had their NBE contract and were practicing their NBE moves. Both coaches well-known in the region, with histories of success.

And in the end, it came down to who had the arrow for that last possession. I think we used the arrow 5 times all game... three to start each of the last 3 quarters, and two occasions to prevent undue roughness: one near the end of the game.

I didn't like it.

Like most officials, I completely understand the APA and it's fairness, etc. In addition, I do like FIBA rules better (though not some of their mechanics), and in the last 2 minutes of the game, the clock stops on made or awarded baskets, and TOs after a made or awarded basket have the TI go to half-court.

So I got thinking that maybe it'd be nice to have an actual jump ball for held ball situations under 2 minutes remaining in the game. It would be easier to implement in FIBA, because they already have a 2-minute rule. To introduce this into Fed, would be creating something new.

I know it would never go through, but I do think it would have led to an even more exciting ending.

[Nevadaref]

Yoohoo... BillyMac....here's a thread just for you.

[JugglingReferee]

On a side note, I ran my idea past a retired college guy, and he did agree that arrow throw-ins are not very exciting.

But he also said that officials administering a jump ball is among the poorest of mechanics that we use. I was rather perplexed because it is very rare that I need to blow down a R's toss if I am the U/U1. I think we do quite a good job at tossing the ball up.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

On a side note, I ran my idea past a retired college guy, and he did agree that arrow throw-ins are not very exciting.

But he also said that officials administering a jump ball is among the poorest of mechanics that we use. I was rather perplexed because it is very rare that I need to blow down a R's toss if I am the U/U1. I think we do quite a good job at tossing the ball up.

Speaking of blowing down a toss, I had a partner in a Men's Rec game blow down my toss because it was too high. Both guys tried to steal it, got nothing, and couldn't jump again when the ball was on the way down so the first touch was by a jumper back on the floor. My thought was "so what?" but I never did ask him about it. Am I missing something?

[Adam]

No, your partner should have let it go.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

On a side note, I ran my idea past a retired college guy, and he did agree that arrow throw-ins are not very exciting.

But he also said that officials administering a jump ball is among the poorest of mechanics that we use. I was rather perplexed because it is very rare that I need to blow down a R's toss if I am the U/U1. I think we do quite a good job at tossing the ball up.

So a 6'7" guy is tied up by a 5'10" guy and that's fair?

If we went back to jump balls, I'd never work another girls game as long as I live.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

So a 6'7" guy is tied up by a 5'10" guy and that's fair?

If we went back to jump balls, I'd never work another girls game as long as I live.

Unfair to who?

And how did a 6'7" guy let a 5'10" guy get near the ball?

In all seriousness, if "being fair" was the ultimate goal, a coin toss would be used. The outcome is 50%. Always.

A jump ball with a tall player should win the toss > 50% of the time.

I think the main reason we use the arrow is that it is quicker to administer. It would have made my game so much more exciting. I think that B stealing an inbounds pass is << the odds of each team obtaining a jumped ball.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

In all seriousness, if "being fair" was the ultimate goal, a coin toss would be used. The outcome is 50%. Always.

Really? In all seriousness? Ugh...

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Unfair to who?


In all seriousness, if "being fair" was the ultimate goal, a coin toss would be used. The outcome is 50%. Always.

Is that right?......Why is it that the NFC, including this year, has won the last 11 Super Bowl coin flips to start the game (and 14 of the last 15)? Is that really a 50% outcome? Always?.....

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

Is that right?......Why is it that the NFC, including this year, has won the last 11 Super Bowl coin flips to start the game (and 14 of the last 15)? Is that really a 50% outcome? Always?.....

Yup. Next year the AFC *and* the NFC will both have a 50% chance of wining that same coin toss...

[26 Year Gap]

The AP arrow is the best rule change in the last 30 years. I remember doing VG games in the 70s. Not only were there multiple held balls immediately after a jump ball, but you had to choose which two of the 8 players with their hands on the ball were the first two there. It made long games longer.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

Is that right?......Why is it that the NFC, including this year, has won the last 11 Super Bowl coin flips to start the game (and 14 of the last 15)? Is that really a 50% outcome? Always?.....

Yep, that means that every year for the last 11 SB's the home and away team have alternated winning the toss..

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

Is that right?......Why is it that the NFC, including this year, has won the last 11 Super Bowl coin flips to start the game (and 14 of the last 15)? Is that really a 50% outcome? Always?.....

A sample of fifteen coin flips is statistcally insignificant.

[Mark Padgett]

Certainly, I do not want to go back to all those jump balls. In fact, when I started, we had one after every basket. I asked Dr. Naismith if he wanted to change that but he said no.

At least I did get him to cut out the bottom of the peach baskets. That speeded up the game somewhat and eliminated the ladder injuries.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

Is that right?......Why is it that the NFC, including this year, has won the last 11 Super Bowl coin flips to start the game (and 14 of the last 15)? Is that really a 50% outcome? Always?.....

Well, if your question is whether 14/15 is 50%, the answer is no. But the prior probability of flipping a heads is 0.5, even though it doesn't seem that way.

In fact, according to Benford's Law, a long string of the same result would be expected given a long enough series of tosses.