Sayville NY Protest

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by waltjp

I would advise against delaying the RFP in a close game like this. Let it play out. Fumbles happen. Bad snaps happen. Forget the controversy surrounding this play, by delaying the RFP you're taking a chance away from one of the teams.

I once worked a playoff game where the R did just this. B was trailing by 3 points. A was just held short of a first down. We set the ball with about 30 seconds left in the game. The R held his whistle until the clock was under 25 seconds and then told A that they didn't need a to snap the ball.

His reasoning was he wanted to 'prevent any problems'. What he prevented was a chance at a miracle win by B.

Agreed!

[daggo66]

There are many ways to inconspicuously hold that 6 seconds. I'm not advocating standing there staring at the clock waiting for the seconds to tick off. It's all about knowing the situation and the time and working it accordingly. You should always keep a consistent pace on your RFP regardless of the game situation. Had Ed done that we probably wouldn't be having this discussion now. You're not "taking anything away from one of the teams." They have had an entire game to play. Just as it's not up to us to determine the outcome, it's not up to us to enhance their opportunity to win on a fluke play that was incorrectly officiated.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by daggo66

There are many ways to inconspicuously hold that 6 seconds. I'm not advocating standing there staring at the clock waiting for the seconds to tick off. It's all about knowing the situation and the time and working it accordingly. You should always keep a consistent pace on your RFP regardless of the game situation. Had Ed done that we probably wouldn't be having this discussion now. You're not "taking anything away from one of the teams." They have had an entire game to play. Just as it's not up to us to determine the outcome, it's not up to us to enhance their opportunity to win on a fluke play that was incorrectly officiated.

I agree but I would not do that in this case. The game is still within reach for the defense although it would take a miracle. We only employ this mechanic when the game is well out of reach.

[daggo66]

Again you need to read what I'm saying. A deliberate and consistent approach to the RFP is what is needed. If you maintain your pace throughout the game you could possibly avoid something like this. Never rush just because the teams are rushing. Hustle, but don't hurry. Trust me there have been times where I wish I could have waited longer but just couldn't. Ed said he was aware of the time and maybe he couldn't hold back any longer. Quite often I have a no huddle team verses a conventional team. I struggle the entire game to maintain the same pace. The hurry up coach wants me to blow it in immediately so he can catch the other team out of position. By maintaining a constant pace he knows that isn't going to change.

[kdf5]

Every single official who's ever worked a game has had a gigantic blown call. My biggest blunder was an IW on a FG attempt. S*It happens. Unfortunately the only difference between my bad call and Ed's is that in today's world with Youtube, etc., these things make it around the world in seconds flat. If there's a lesson I can take away from this it is the lesson of staying far enough away to see the big picture. Some of my worst calls/non-calls came when I was too close to the action to get perspective. The one thing I console myself with is that 99.9% of the people who scream the loudest are the same ones who couldn't last 5 minutes doing what we do.

[bigjohn]

In OH there are no appeals!

A. Official Selection
OHSAA Bylaw 8, Section 2, reads in part, “Great care shall be exercised in the selection of officials, well in advance of the contest and agreed upon by schools involved. When the contest begins each school waives all of its rights so far as objecting to the officials.” Public criticism of officials is a direct reflection upon those who were responsible for assigning the officials to the game.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Every single official who's ever worked a game has had a gigantic blown call.

Except for this guy, of course.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Except for this guy, of course.

Yeah, that post was a joke.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Except for this guy, of course.

SanDiegoSteve certainly made it clear that he reserved the right to remain stupid!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Except for this guy, of course.

Oh ya... that guy... SanDiegoSteve.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by daggo66

There are many ways to inconspicuously hold that 6 seconds. I'm not advocating standing there staring at the clock waiting for the seconds to tick off. It's all about knowing the situation and the time and working it accordingly. You should always keep a consistent pace on your RFP regardless of the game situation. Had Ed done that we probably wouldn't be having this discussion now. You're not "taking anything away from one of the teams." They have had an entire game to play. Just as it's not up to us to determine the outcome, it's not up to us to enhance their opportunity to win on a fluke play that was incorrectly officiated.

Here are my thoughts and what I practiced that day. With 59 seconds we knew it would be real close. I said to my umpire Joe, what do you think can we influence the clock?

Kings Park had two timeouts remaining and they were going to use them. The third down play ended at about 37-35 seconds and I debated holding the RFP finally giving it at 31 my logic being it would not be fair to not give Kings Park an opportunity in other words I did not want to influence the game.

At six seconds I flagged Sayville for delay of game and like I said earlier the clock wound down but I placed the time back on the clock.

Had Sayville gotten off the quick kick as planned what would have happened. Probably nothing but the end of the game.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Here are my thoughts and what I practiced that day. With 59 seconds we knew it would be real close. I said to my umpire Joe, what do you think can we influence the clock?

Kings Park had two timeouts remaining and they were going to use them. The third down play ended at about 37-35 seconds and I debated holding the RFP finally giving it at 31 my logic being it would not be fair to not give Kings Park an opportunity in other words I did not want to influence the game.

At six seconds I flagged Sayville for delay of game and like I said earlier the clock wound down but I placed the time back on the clock.

Had Sayville gotten off the quick kick as planned what would have happened. Probably nothing but the end of the game.

[Standard disclaimer, official, but not the oblongate ball type]
Why would you try to influence the clock? Missing a call is not a mark on one's integrity, we all miss them them. But why would you blow the ready for play anytime but when the ball is ready for play in a close game?
________
EndlessJoy live

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by youngump

[Standard disclaimer, official, but not the oblongate ball type]
Why would you try to influence the clock? Missing a call is not a mark on one's integrity, we all miss them them. But why would you blow the ready for play anytime but when the ball is ready for play in a close game?

My point exactly. We did not try to influence the clock like in the 44-0 game, in fact, as I said we put time back on the clock which was the right thing to do.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

The third down play ended at about 37-35 seconds and I debated holding the RFP finally giving it at 31 my logic being it would not be fair to not give Kings Park an opportunity in other words I did not want to influence the game.

I've heard that the average amount of time from the end of a down to the RFP is about 12-15 seconds. That's why the new college timing of 40/25 really should not be that different of a pace than what they had before. If the previous down ended at 35-37 seconds, it would not have been unusual to mark it RFP at 20-25 seconds remaining. If you had it marked RFP in 6 seconds, you must have had a runner down on his own (no tacklers on him or other to unpile) with the U right there to spot the ball right away.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I've heard that the average amount of time from the end of a down to the RFP is about 12-15 seconds. That's why the new college timing of 40/25 really should not be that different of a pace than what they had before. If the previous down ended at 35-37 seconds, it would not have been unusual to mark it RFP at 20-25 seconds remaining. If you had it marked RFP in 6 seconds, you must have had a runner down on his own (no tacklers on him or other to unpile) with the U right there to spot the ball right away.

I agree. Perhaps that is your usual pace though Ed. Do you call a lot of delays of game through-out the season? If you do perhaps you could slow down your RFP through-out the entire game.

I also agree that we don't see everything. Even with 7 guys you don't see everything. Perspective limits us to usually two or three views of a play but sometimes it gets down to only one or maybe even none. I would bet that if you really looked at any game you were working that there is probably a time or two during the game where something could happen and nobody would see it. We work hard to limit those times but there is no guarantee that we can eliminate them.