Sayville NY Protest

[Ed Hickland]

Thanks to those who sent private messages. I have been bombarded with calls, messages, opionions, etc. over this one call.

I remembered how I tried to get those 6 seconds off the clock but being honest the play clock started at 31. Then came the delay of game, in fact, the clock was directed to put 6 on the clock has it had ticked down to one and he was the losing home team operator.

The Newsday message board wants my head and funny thing happened yesterday, got a call to do a game at Sayville -- not on my life!

Quickly, here is what happened. The fumbled snap came rolling toward me and it appeared it had been recovered and I would have to separate the players to determine possession. Notice the Kings Park player come in and shield my view at the same time I am looking for the ball and holding my whistle when suddenly the ball is in the air. How did it get there? At 1/5 normal speed the answer is simple in real time not so simple.

We conferenced. The story I got was the player in wrestling the ball away knocked it in the air. Whats the rule, if you cannot prove intentional its accidential and I am positive someone will criticize the logic.

Should I have seen the throw (the player admitted he threw the ball yesterday)? Should I have been so close?

We did not make the right decision and why? I had the line judge on that side go over the video.

This is one of those where you blew it and egos prevent you from saying it.

[daggo66]

Ed, you are certainly not alone in this mess, though as white hat you are held responsible. Someone on your crew should have come up with a least one of the many possible calls that could have prevented the score. Rest assurred that some good may come of it. From now on in all of my pre-games I will stress maintaining concentration even when it appears the game is over. One question, and one that everyone should consider if the opportunity should arise. Was there any way you could have delayed your RFP to get you under 25 seconds?

[waltjp]

I would advise against delaying the RFP in a close game like this. Let it play out. Fumbles happen. Bad snaps happen. Forget the controversy surrounding this play, by delaying the RFP you're taking a chance away from one of the teams.

I once worked a playoff game where the R did just this. B was trailing by 3 points. A was just held short of a first down. We set the ball with about 30 seconds left in the game. The R held his whistle until the clock was under 25 seconds and then told A that they didn't need a to snap the ball.

His reasoning was he wanted to 'prevent any problems'. What he prevented was a chance at a miracle win by B.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by waltjp

I would advise against delaying the RFP in a close game like this. Let it play out. Fumbles happen. Bad snaps happen. Forget the controversy surrounding this play, by delaying the RFP you're taking a chance away from one of the teams.

I once worked a playoff game where the R did just this. B was trailing by 3 points. A was just held short of a first down. We set the ball with about 30 seconds left in the game. The R held his whistle until the clock was under 25 seconds and then told A that they didn't need a to snap the ball.

His reasoning was he wanted to 'prevent any problems'. What he prevented was a chance at a miracle win by B.

Agreed!

[daggo66]

There are many ways to inconspicuously hold that 6 seconds. I'm not advocating standing there staring at the clock waiting for the seconds to tick off. It's all about knowing the situation and the time and working it accordingly. You should always keep a consistent pace on your RFP regardless of the game situation. Had Ed done that we probably wouldn't be having this discussion now. You're not "taking anything away from one of the teams." They have had an entire game to play. Just as it's not up to us to determine the outcome, it's not up to us to enhance their opportunity to win on a fluke play that was incorrectly officiated.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Thanks to those who sent private messages. I have been bombarded with calls, messages, opionions, etc. over this one call.

I remembered how I tried to get those 6 seconds off the clock but being honest the play clock started at 31. Then came the delay of game, in fact, the clock was directed to put 6 on the clock has it had ticked down to one and he was the losing home team operator.

The Newsday message board wants my head and funny thing happened yesterday, got a call to do a game at Sayville -- not on my life!

Quickly, here is what happened. The fumbled snap came rolling toward me and it appeared it had been recovered and I would have to separate the players to determine possession. Notice the Kings Park player come in and shield my view at the same time I am looking for the ball and holding my whistle when suddenly the ball is in the air. How did it get there? At 1/5 normal speed the answer is simple in real time not so simple.

We conferenced. The story I got was the player in wrestling the ball away knocked it in the air. Whats the rule, if you cannot prove intentional its accidential and I am positive someone will criticize the logic.

Should I have seen the throw (the player admitted he threw the ball yesterday)? Should I have been so close?

We did not make the right decision and why? I had the line judge on that side go over the video.

This is one of those where you blew it and egos prevent you from saying it.

Thanks for sharing your version of the play. I finally got to watch the play last night and speculated it happened as you described it. Because you came in to uncover the pile, you didn't see the player throw the ball. Your logic is correct on intentional/accidental and this time your crew was unfortunately wrong. That sucks but it happens. Too bad your LJ didn't see it though. He should have been wide enough to see this clearly.

Do you think the play would have turned out differently if you had the ability to change balls during the drive? Sorry...couldn't resist.

Keep your chin up and good luck the rest of the season. I'm sure now you can sympathize with Mr. Hochuli.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by daggo66

There are many ways to inconspicuously hold that 6 seconds. I'm not advocating standing there staring at the clock waiting for the seconds to tick off. It's all about knowing the situation and the time and working it accordingly. You should always keep a consistent pace on your RFP regardless of the game situation. Had Ed done that we probably wouldn't be having this discussion now. You're not "taking anything away from one of the teams." They have had an entire game to play. Just as it's not up to us to determine the outcome, it's not up to us to enhance their opportunity to win on a fluke play that was incorrectly officiated.

I agree but I would not do that in this case. The game is still within reach for the defense although it would take a miracle. We only employ this mechanic when the game is well out of reach.

[daggo66]

Again you need to read what I'm saying. A deliberate and consistent approach to the RFP is what is needed. If you maintain your pace throughout the game you could possibly avoid something like this. Never rush just because the teams are rushing. Hustle, but don't hurry. Trust me there have been times where I wish I could have waited longer but just couldn't. Ed said he was aware of the time and maybe he couldn't hold back any longer. Quite often I have a no huddle team verses a conventional team. I struggle the entire game to maintain the same pace. The hurry up coach wants me to blow it in immediately so he can catch the other team out of position. By maintaining a constant pace he knows that isn't going to change.

[kdf5]

Every single official who's ever worked a game has had a gigantic blown call. My biggest blunder was an IW on a FG attempt. S*It happens. Unfortunately the only difference between my bad call and Ed's is that in today's world with Youtube, etc., these things make it around the world in seconds flat. If there's a lesson I can take away from this it is the lesson of staying far enough away to see the big picture. Some of my worst calls/non-calls came when I was too close to the action to get perspective. The one thing I console myself with is that 99.9% of the people who scream the loudest are the same ones who couldn't last 5 minutes doing what we do.

[bigjohn]

In OH there are no appeals!

A. Official Selection
OHSAA Bylaw 8, Section 2, reads in part, “Great care shall be exercised in the selection of officials, well in advance of the contest and agreed upon by schools involved. When the contest begins each school waives all of its rights so far as objecting to the officials.” Public criticism of officials is a direct reflection upon those who were responsible for assigning the officials to the game.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Thanks for sharing your version of the play. I finally got to watch the play last night and speculated it happened as you described it. Because you came in to uncover the pile, you didn't see the player throw the ball. Your logic is correct on intentional/accidental and this time your crew was unfortunately wrong. That sucks but it happens. Too bad your LJ didn't see it though. He should have been wide enough to see this clearly.

Do you think the play would have turned out differently if you had the ability to change balls during the drive? Sorry...couldn't resist.

Keep your chin up and good luck the rest of the season. I'm sure now you can sympathize with Mr. Hochuli.

Hey, maybe the replacement ball would not have been fumbled! BTW. I asked our interpreter for a decision.

I always sympathized with Ed, in fact, dropped him a line just like a lot of folks have done for me. It helps!

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by daggo66

There are many ways to inconspicuously hold that 6 seconds. I'm not advocating standing there staring at the clock waiting for the seconds to tick off. It's all about knowing the situation and the time and working it accordingly. You should always keep a consistent pace on your RFP regardless of the game situation. Had Ed done that we probably wouldn't be having this discussion now. You're not "taking anything away from one of the teams." They have had an entire game to play. Just as it's not up to us to determine the outcome, it's not up to us to enhance their opportunity to win on a fluke play that was incorrectly officiated.

Here are my thoughts and what I practiced that day. With 59 seconds we knew it would be real close. I said to my umpire Joe, what do you think can we influence the clock?

Kings Park had two timeouts remaining and they were going to use them. The third down play ended at about 37-35 seconds and I debated holding the RFP finally giving it at 31 my logic being it would not be fair to not give Kings Park an opportunity in other words I did not want to influence the game.

At six seconds I flagged Sayville for delay of game and like I said earlier the clock wound down but I placed the time back on the clock.

Had Sayville gotten off the quick kick as planned what would have happened. Probably nothing but the end of the game.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Here are my thoughts and what I practiced that day. With 59 seconds we knew it would be real close. I said to my umpire Joe, what do you think can we influence the clock?

Kings Park had two timeouts remaining and they were going to use them. The third down play ended at about 37-35 seconds and I debated holding the RFP finally giving it at 31 my logic being it would not be fair to not give Kings Park an opportunity in other words I did not want to influence the game.

At six seconds I flagged Sayville for delay of game and like I said earlier the clock wound down but I placed the time back on the clock.

Had Sayville gotten off the quick kick as planned what would have happened. Probably nothing but the end of the game.

[Standard disclaimer, official, but not the oblongate ball type]
Why would you try to influence the clock? Missing a call is not a mark on one's integrity, we all miss them them. But why would you blow the ready for play anytime but when the ball is ready for play in a close game?
________
EndlessJoy live

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Every single official who's ever worked a game has had a gigantic blown call.

Except for this guy, of course.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by youngump

[Standard disclaimer, official, but not the oblongate ball type]
Why would you try to influence the clock? Missing a call is not a mark on one's integrity, we all miss them them. But why would you blow the ready for play anytime but when the ball is ready for play in a close game?

My point exactly. We did not try to influence the clock like in the 44-0 game, in fact, as I said we put time back on the clock which was the right thing to do.