Situation from subvarsity game

[chapmaja]

I heard this from a friend of mine. Was this correct? The friend is the coach of team A an insists the enforcement was not correct.

Team A ball at Team B's 18 yard line. 3rd down and 10.

Team A QB drops back to pass, A50 holds behind the line. A throws a pass an B25 commits defensive pass interference. B 90 also commits roughing the passer. The pass falls incomplete. After the play, A 67 punches B 90. As A67 is being lead away, B90 then taunts A67. Team B coach then gets flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct for charging onto the field to argue with the officials about B90's taunting penalty.

How are the penalties supposed to be enforced?

The officials moved the ball to the 9 and ruled it a replay 3rd down team A?

My understanding is that all the live ball fouls offset, then we penalize each dead ball foul as they did not occur at the same time. A67's punch came first, ball back to the 23, B90's taunting would be half the distance, then the unsportsmanlike on B's coach, another half the distance from the sport after B90's penalty.

I would have the ball first and goal at the Team B 5 and 3/4 yard line.

This resulted in the ejection of Team B's coach from the game as it was his second unsportsmanlike of the game, and B90 was ejected after the next play for taunting a Team A player again.

Apparently the game was ended a few minutes later.

[HLin NC]

Assuming we' re talking NFHS rules. NCAA might differ.

What part of the enforcement does A think is incorrect?

The live ball fouls all offset and the down is replayed back to 3/10 at B18.

A67's punch is a personal foul and ejection. B90's taunt is USC (and in NC would also be an ejection). Since it reads as if those two fouls occurred before either could be enforced, they would now offset so we're still at 3/10 at B18. B's USC would now be a half the distance enforcement to the B9.

Yes, it sounds as if this sordid mess was enforced correctly based on the info you provided.

For B's coach taking a sub-varsity game this seriously, I would recommend he take up smoking pot. Dude is wound way too tight.

[Robert Goodman]

The only detail that leaves this unclear is the part about, "as A67 is being led away". That might mean the disqualification is being administered, and if that's so, then the penalty for his foul was at least in the process of being enforced as the taunting occurred. But if that were going on, I doubt the referee would've made the mistake of offsetting the punching and taunting penalties, so I suspect A67 was not being led away as part of penalty enforcement, but simply to restore order preliminary to presenting the penalty. It may have been teammates dragging him away.

[ajmc]

[QUOTE=chapmaja;1035115]I heard this from a friend of mine. Was this correct? The friend is the coach of team A an insists the enforcement was not correct.

If you really want to give your friend some really useful advice, you may suggest that he should NEVER want to be THAT coach, or even THAT parent who loses personal control at a children's game.

Coaching at the youth level has more than enough challenge (akin to herding cats) to necessitate totally focusing on the job itself, and leaving officiating responsibilities at these level games to those trained to do so, which very similar to coaching is a complex and challenging environment, subject to unnecessary, and often ill-advised, scrutiny and challenge.

[Robert Goodman]

[QUOTE=ajmc;1035120]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Coaching at the youth level has more than enough challenge (akin to herding cats) to necessitate totally focusing on the job itself, and leaving officiating responsibilities at these level games to those trained to do so, which very similar to coaching is a complex and challenging environment, subject to unnecessary, and often ill-advised, scrutiny and challenge.

Vice versa too. I keep running into officials who try to move my front line receiving players up to toe the restraining line on free kicks, instead of back a distance from there as I want them. I had one at a scrimmage pick up and move my player sideways to a position in line behind the snapper, instead of offset to take the snap, thinking we must've made a mistake.

[ajmc]

[QUOTE=Robert Goodman;1035122]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Vice versa too. I keep running into officials who try to move my front line receiving players up to toe the restraining line on free kicks, instead of back a distance from there as I want them. I had one at a scrimmage pick up and move my player sideways to a position in line behind the snapper, instead of offset to take the snap, thinking we must've made a mistake.

In situations like that, you would usually be far better off referencing NFHS 3-5-11 and questioning clarification, in a civil tone (albeit risking a possible charged T/O) than berating or arguing with a game official about your understanding of a rule.

[Texas Aggie]

Team A ball at Team B's 18 yard line. 3rd down and 10.

Team A QB drops back to pass, A50 holds behind the line. A throws a pass an B25 commits defensive pass interference. B 90 also commits roughing the passer. The pass falls incomplete. After the play, A 67 punches B 90. As A67 is being lead away, B90 then taunts A67. Team B coach then gets flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct for charging onto the field to argue with the officials about B90's taunting penalty.

How are the penalties supposed to be enforced?

The officials moved the ball to the 9 and ruled it a replay 3rd down team A?

Under NCAA rules, just visualizing this, you would enforce all the dead ball fouls separately as they'd all be completed when the next one occurred. The live ball fouls offset, so you begin the enforcement at the B18 with 3rd down, march back 15. Then you bring it back 15 to the B18 to enforce the B90 taunting foul which results in a first down for Team A. Then you enforce the B Coach's UNS foul with a half the distance and auto first down. A67 is DQed and B90 and B Coach both have their first UNS of the game. Clock will start on the snap.

In Texas, the coach would be reported to the state association, as would the DQed player and the other UNS player.