25/40 Play clock

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well I can tell you that again we do not on my crew or most crews I have worked with, blow our whistle on plays we do not see. Even if it is obvious. Players in my experience know when the play is over and often stop. Yes if there are players that are clearly still playing or cannot stop, there might be a whistle from that covering official, but that is not very common. If I do not see leather, I am not blowing my whistle. I am more likely to use my voice or yell at players the "ball is dead" or something so they know what to do at that point. But blowing a whistle for the most part and not ruling on something is a big no-no here. All it takes is that one time.







I was a Back Judge on my crew for years with a playoff crew, I probably only blew my whistle on incomplete passes or very long runs. Otherwise, I would never blow my whistle. I am a Referee on the same crew now if the play does not end in the backfield, I do not blow my whistle at all. And even in the backfield it better be at my feet. As I said many plays end without a single whistle.



Peace

To me it's a sign of a good crew when I hear one whistle end a play the vast majority of the time.

And vice versa.


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[CT1]

We don’t echo whistles. We DO mirror “stop the clock.”

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CT1

We don’t echo whistles. We DO mirror “stop the clock.”

I will at times do that on an obvious first down without a whistle.

I don't want the crew mirroring my wind, though.


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[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I am in complete agreement with you here. I'm now an umpire (was an LJ when I created this profile) and I'm sure there are games where I never blow my whistle. Most common instance would be a false start or to alert the crew I had a foul. The only time I do it to signal the end of a play is on a kickoff when I'm the covering official on the return. On regular scrimmage plays I spit out my whistle and use my voice to let players know "plays over!"

Good idea, if ever there was a situation perfectly fitting the advice, "One size NEVER fits all", it's a football game, especially considering the enormous span in the maturity, experience, skill, talent and physical abilities of the participant as well as the progressive complexity of how the game is played, and managed, at different levels.

[Rich]

Last night the timer came to our locker room. Has been doing it a long time. Nice guy.

I warned him that my wind after a first down inbounds could be really quick -- maybe a second after the clock stops if the ball is inside the hash marks.

Then I found myself winding....and winding....and winding.....

At some point the timers will catch on, but I am not changing our mechanics. They need to adapt to us, not us adapt (forever) to them.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Rich

Last night the timer came to our locker room. Has been doing it a long time. Nice guy.

I warned him that my wind after a first down inbounds could be really quick -- maybe a second after the clock stops if the ball is inside the hash marks.

Then I found myself winding....and winding....and winding.....

At some point the timers will catch on, but I am not changing our mechanics. They need to adapt to us, not us adapt (forever) to them.

I would say 1 second is REALLY quick. The NCAA guideline is 4-5 seconds on first downs and out of bounds (the latter obviously doesn't apply to us) and that's pretty quick. The umpire doesn't even have the ball and the box hasn't moved in 1 second. The HS game is not that long that we have to be in a hurry to get the clock started.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I would say 1 second is REALLY quick. The NCAA guideline is 4-5 seconds on first downs and out of bounds (the latter obviously doesn't apply to us) and that's pretty quick. The umpire doesn't even have the ball and the box hasn't moved in 1 second. The HS game is not that long that we have to be in a hurry to get the clock started.

1 second is probably an exaggeration in reality.

I just wanted him to be watching. He wasn't, not all the time.

It's quicker, though, than when I had to give a RFP whistle/signal.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Rich

Last night the timer came to our locker room. Has been doing it a long time. Nice guy.

I warned him that my wind after a first down inbounds could be really quick -- maybe a second after the clock stops if the ball is inside the hash marks.

Then I found myself winding....and winding....and winding.....

At some point the timers will catch on, but I am not changing our mechanics. They need to adapt to us, not us adapt (forever) to them.

Wow. When NCAA first adopted the business of stopping the clock to reset the chain -- close to 50 years ago -- that provision didn't even reference the ready-for-play. It just provided for time out of the period while that marker was being moved, independently of when the ball was ready for play -- which is weird to my mind. (At that time, when it was goal to go, the front stick was placed on the sideline with the chain stretched in the end zone, same as it would've been in the field of play, rather than laid down.) It did noticeably lengthen games, enough to increase scoring.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I would say 1 second is REALLY quick. The NCAA guideline is 4-5 seconds on first downs and out of bounds (the latter obviously doesn't apply to us) and that's pretty quick. The umpire doesn't even have the ball and the box hasn't moved in 1 second. The HS game is not that long that we have to be in a hurry to get the clock started.

Unfortunately, "watching" doesn't guarantee "seeing". There are inescapable factors unique to EACH game site: including,

Lighting: (Some a lot better than others).
Height of the "PressBox": (Higher is usually better)
Team Box Area: (Wing officials blend in & disappear in front of Team Box)
Uniforms: Conversion to Black pants (from white knickers) was a God send, BUT, they make officials a lot less easily identified.)
Signaler's location: Signals given from close to &/or the far side of the mass of player humanity, can be totally invisible to the Press Box. Whereas signals given from empty space apart from congestion are FAR MORE visible. (not always possible, but worth considering)
Sideline Signals: (BOTH sides, officials disappear infront of, or behind Team Box areas. Repeating T/O wing signals by U, BJ or R are VERY helpful.
Time signalling: When signalling, when possible watch the clock, and keep signalling until it stops


As I'm sure most understand, once the ball is snapped, all sorts of things start to happen, and the view from the Press Box is not the same, or as specific as the one seen on a TV screen.

Some fields offer a LOT BETTER "seeing", than others, and the only one that matters is the field YOUR GAME is being played on, so adjustment may be necessary.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I would say 1 second is REALLY quick. The NCAA guideline is 4-5 seconds on first downs and out of bounds (the latter obviously doesn't apply to us) and that's pretty quick. The umpire doesn't even have the ball and the box hasn't moved in 1 second. The HS game is not that long that we have to be in a hurry to get the clock started.

Unfortunately, "watching" doesn't guarantee "seeing". There are inescapable factors unique to EACH game site:

Lighting: (Some a lot better than others).
Height of the "PressBox": (Higher is usually better)
Team Box Area: (Wing officials blend in & disappear in front of Team Box)
Uniforms: Conversion to Black pants (from white knickers) was a God send, BUT, they make officials a lot less easily identified.)
Signaler's location: Signals given from close to &/or the far side of the mass of player humanity, can be totally invisible to the Press Box. Whereas signals given from empty space apart from congestion are FAR MORE visible.
Sideline Signals: (BOTH sides, officials disappear infront of, or behind Team Box areas. Repeating T/O wing signals by U, BJ or R are VERY helpful.
Time signalling: When signalling, when possible watch the clock, and keep signalling until it stops


As I'm sure most understand, once the ball is snapped, all sorts of things start to happen, and the view from the Press Box is not the same, nor as specific as the one seen on a TV screen.

Some fields offer a LOT BETTER "seeing", than others, and the only one that matters is the field YOUR GAME is being played on.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I would say 1 second is REALLY quick. The NCAA guideline is 4-5 seconds on first downs and out of bounds (the latter obviously doesn't apply to us) and that's pretty quick. The umpire doesn't even have the ball and the box hasn't moved in 1 second. The HS game is not that long that we have to be in a hurry to get the clock started.

Unfortunately, "watching" doesn't guarantee "seeing". There are inescapable factors unique to EACH game site:

Lighting: (Some a lot better than others).
Height of the "PressBox": (Higher is usually better)
Team Box Area: (Wing officials blend in & disappear in front of Team Box)
Uniforms: Conversion to Black pants (from white knickers) was a God send, BUT, they make officials a lot less easily identified.)
Signaler's location: Signals given from close to &/or the far side of the mass of player humanity, can be totally invisible to the Press Box. Whereas signals given from empty space apart from congestion are FAR MORE visible.
Sideline Signals: (BOTH sides, officials disappear infront of, or behind Team Box areas. Repeating T/O wing signals by U, BJ or R are VERY helpful.
Time signalling: When signalling, when possible watch the clock, and keep signalling until it stops


As I'm sure most understand, once the ball is snapped, all sorts of things start to happen, and the view from the Press Box is not the same, nor as specific as the one seen on a TV screen.

Some fields offer a LOT BETTER "seeing", than others, and the only one that matters is the field YOUR GAME is being played on, so adjustments may be necessary.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Wow. When NCAA first adopted the business of stopping the clock to reset the chain -- close to 50 years ago -- that provision didn't even reference the ready-for-play. It just provided for time out of the period while that marker was being moved, independently of when the ball was ready for play -- which is weird to my mind. (At that time, when it was goal to go, the front stick was placed on the sideline with the chain stretched in the end zone, same as it would've been in the field of play, rather than laid down.) It did noticeably lengthen games, enough to increase scoring.

Our instruction is that we're to wind independent of the chains/box moving. It's all about the ball being placed -- and when the umpire steps away, it's RFP *by rule*. The clock should be started then. It may be started before the umpire steps away -- it's really when I'm OK with A snapping the football.

[ajmc]

[

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Rich

Our instruction is that we're to wind independent of the chains/box moving. It's all about the ball being placed -- and when the umpire steps away, it's RFP *by rule*. The clock should be started then. It may be started before the umpire steps away -- it's really when I'm OK with A snapping the football.

That's when it makes the most sense.

I don't know what NCAA's reasoning was circa 1970, but I might guess that they were thinking team A should not be losing (or taking) time off the period clock when they couldn't see the line to gain. Yeah, it's dumb -- they knew it was first and ten/goal, what more could they need -- but it's all I can think of. The more cynical thought it was just to get in more scoring (or more plays) in the contest against pro football for popularity with audiences.