25/40 Play clock

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jwaz

when does the play clock start after a kickoff? Thank You

When the Referee blows the RFP which is a 25-second clock.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

The more common issue we had was the game clock operator starting the clock after a first down in bounds and the R giving a silent wind.

Why is this an issue? The clock operator not watching? Or the R blowing? If the latter, I don't see that as a problem, though I don't blow my whistle unless I think I need to. The former should be taken care of in pregame.

To me, all plays, all codes, that end in bounds should keep the clock running.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

To me, all plays, all codes, that end in bounds should keep the clock running.

NFHS 3-4-2 The game clock shall start with the RFP on a down beginning with a snap if the game clock was stopped for any reason other than specified in 3-4-3 or an untimed down:
a. For an official's TO.........

NFHS 3-4-3 "The game clock will start with the SNAP......If the game clock was stopped for: (reasons a-j including
b. B or R is awarded a new series.
c. Either team is awarded a new series after a legal kick
(A CONTINUOUS FIRST DOWN IS NOT LISTED)

NFHS 3-5-7 "An officials TO occurs during a dead ball:
b. When a 1st down is declared."

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Why is this an issue? The clock operator not watching? Or the R blowing? If the latter, I don't see that as a problem, though I don't blow my whistle unless I think I need to. The former should be taken care of in pregame.

To me, all plays, all codes, that end in bounds should keep the clock running.

The game clock operator likely wasn't paying attention and he was used to a whistle starting the game clock after a first down in bounds. We are instructed to not blow a whistle in this case so the R would just wind and wind until the clock operator caught on or the ball was snapped. It maybe happened in 2 or 3 games the first year and once or twice the second year. Now it's rare, but it still occasionally happens.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

The game clock operator likely wasn't paying attention and he was used to a whistle starting the game clock after a first down in bounds..

Not really a big deal, either way, but....The Referee, blowing his whistle to announce the RFP (so that everyone, even those not specifically looking at him, understood the RFP was declared) worked pretty well for 100, or so, years.

Why such a big deal about changing that?

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Not really a big deal, either way, but....The Referee, blowing his whistle to announce the RFP (so that everyone, even those not specifically looking at him, understood the RFP was declared) worked pretty well for 100, or so, years.

Why such a big deal about changing that?

Because it resulted in too much variation in the time from dead ball to delay of game play to play and game to game. This was especially critical at the end of a half when a team is trying to burn as much time as possible and the crew is either placing the ball too quickly and thus not allowing the offense to burn as much time as they want or taking too much time and allowing the offense to burn more time than they should. The other impact is the offense that likes to take their time calling their play, getting to the line, using motion and shifts and snap toward the end of the play clock. If they are commonly getting 40-45 seconds to do this and then suddenly they only get 35 because the ball was placed quickly they have to rush or end up calling a time out or incurring a delay of game.

Other than that the 25-second play clock is OK, but the 40-second play clock allows for a much smoother and consistent flow and takes away one thing the referee has to worry about on many dead balls. The reported results from the trial states was almost unanimous that the officials and coaches much preferred it. That's a pretty solid endorsement.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Other than that the 25-second play clock is OK, but the 40-second play clock allows for a much smoother and consistent flow and takes away one thing the referee has to worry about on many dead balls. The reported results from the trial states was almost unanimous that the officials and coaches much preferred it. That's a pretty solid endorsement.

Sorry, my question apparently wasn't clear. I was simply wondering why, when the actual 25 second RFP is declared, it's recommended to be done silently. For generations, the notice included both a wind, and a whistle (to announce to EVERYONE) that it happened.

Just wondering, what is the reason/purpose/benefit, if any, of changing it to "silent".

[jTheUmp]

2 weeks in here.

Week 1 we had a visible play clock. Only had one issue where the PCO didn't start the 40-second clock correctly, which was corrected by having the PCO reset it to 25 after an officials timeout (which, according to the B, happened almost exactly when the 25-second notification happened on his ReadyRef).

I think there were a couple of times where we had to re-set to 25 after long incompletions (getting a new ball from the ball person? LOL), but it wasn't an issue really since the game clock is stopped in those situations anyway.

Week 2 we didn't have a visible play clock, so the B kept it on his ReadyRef. Again, there were 3 or 4 times where we had to reset to 25 after a long incompletion, but we just took care of that ourselves without the players/coaches noticing (the B would get on the O2O and let us know, but that was it).

I don't remember any DOG fouls in either game.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Sorry, my question apparently wasn't clear. I was simply wondering why, when the actual 25 second RFP is declared, it's recommended to be done silently. For generations, the notice included both a wind, and a whistle (to announce to EVERYONE) that it happened.

Just wondering, what is the reason/purpose/benefit, if any, of changing it to "silent".

If the play clock is set to 25 after a change of possession/adminisitrative stop, etc. then you do blow your whistle with the RFP. The only time you don't is when you are winding the game clock after a first down in bounds. That is not necessarily when the ball is ready for play but I do actually like a quick toot when it happens. For now the NFHS mechanic says no. The NCAA mechanic went back and forth on that one and I think now it's up to each referee. In NCAA they are winding the game clock pretty quickly after the first down/runner out of bounds so the players are usually huddling or returning to their side of the ball (target is 34-35 seconds on the play clock).

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Because it resulted in too much variation in the time from dead ball to delay of game play to play and game to game.

The blowing of the whistle to announce RFP did that?? One of you is answering about timing while the other is asking about signaling.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Not really a big deal, either way, but....The Referee, blowing his whistle to announce the RFP (so that everyone, even those not specifically looking at him, understood the RFP was declared) worked pretty well for 100, or so, years.

Why such a big deal about changing that?

I did not get it either, but I will be a good soldier and do it the way they suggest.

Peace

[CT1]

Why would anyone be against a procedure that insures greater consistency during a game? It’s one less thing for coaches to yell at us about.

[HLin NC]

Unfortunately, the consistency sought is predicated on a play clock operator understanding and implementing the instructions. Most all of our stadiums have a visible play clock for varsity game so our BJ's aren't keeping it except for some JV games. In the three weeks we've played, I've not heard a HC mention anything about the play clock during the game. Pre-game comments have pretty much been "We're learning". Putting an official on the job in our region is not possible given our numbers.

Our state office published the NFHS operator instructions on their website plus issued their own easier to read, simpler format. The state supervisor made sure that all AD's were aware of it.

Week 1)- My best guess is the PCO misunderstood the WH's instruction in pregame because he didn't set the :40 until the U backed away from the ball on every play. He had been told that would be only on a 1st down in-bounds with clock running for the U to insure the box was set. All other plays were to go off the DB or INC signal.

Week 2)- Don't recall any major issues.

Week 3)- All over the map. WH got frustrated and it really distracted him. He had asked the AD to have the PCO report to us for pre-game. I knew when the AD smiled and said "Oh, he's good, he's got it" we wouldn't be seeing him.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

Why would anyone be against a procedure that insures greater consistency during a game? It’s one less thing for coaches to yell at us about.

Because it is not administered consistently. There are already examples of people that do the clock not understanding things or doing something different. So not sure this rule is making things automatically consistently either, especially if not everyone can see the function of the clock.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by CT1

Why would anyone be against a procedure that insures greater consistency during a game? It’s one less thing for coaches to yell at us about.

Ever since the WLAF experimented with this type of play clock 30 years ago, it's insured consistency in one thing at the expense of consistency in another. When you base the time to put the ball in play while the period clock is running on period clock time (which is what the 40 second clock does), you achieve greater consistency in the amount of time team A can take off period time. However, when you base it on the time from the RFP, you achieve greater consistency in the interval during which team A is allowed to put the ball in play.

One of those things matters to a team that's just looking to consume time, and of course to their opponents. The other matters to a team that likes to go no-huddle and use a lot of shifts and motions, threatening to put the ball in play at any moment. When the 40-second clock is in effect, they can't start doing that anyway until the RFP. Depending on when the RFP comes, the 40 second clock provides either more opportunity to team A to do that or more relief to team B in limiting team A's opportunity to do that, compared to the 25-second clock.