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Old Sun Jan 11, 2015, 11:44am
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1 coach team gets disqualified. What is the rule about continuing with no Coach?

Thanks in advance for help on the following:


Scenario 1) JV teams only coach is ejected during game. Can the game continue w/o a coach here?


Scenario 2) head coach is not present at the beginning of game but team is. How long of a delay is acceptable?


Thanks again folks, primarily loooking for textboook answers here not game philosophy/theory if that is possible.

Last edited by Carlos2283; Sun Jan 11, 2015 at 06:36pm.
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2015, 11:51am
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1. Virtually every state I know of addresses this, NFHS does not. Check with your state, but I don't know of any state that allows a high school contest to continue without a coach on the sideline. Some even go as far as defining who is allowed to assume that role.

2. Rule 10-1-5A: when the clock is not running consuming a full minute through not being ready when it is time to start either half. Penalty is a team technical foul.
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2015, 11:57am
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
1. Virtually every state I know of addresses this, NFHS does not. Check with your state, but I don't know of any state that allows a high school contest to continue without a coach on the sideline. Some even go as far as defining who is allowed to assume that role.
In Wyo, coaches have to go through a certification process with the state education offices, which means that a parent CANNOT come down and take the place of a coach. If they only had the one coach on the bench, at least here, that game ends in a forfeit.
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2015, 11:59am
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Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
In Wyo, coaches have to go through a certification process with the state education offices, which means that a parent CANNOT come down and take the place of a coach. If they only had the one coach on the bench, at least here, that game ends in a forfeit.
Are you instructed to check credentials, or simply refuse to allow anyone to join the bench after the game has started?

What if, for example, a varsity AC comes in after the JV HC gets tossed?
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2015, 12:06pm
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Are you instructed to check credentials, or simply refuse to allow anyone to join the bench after the game has started?

What if, for example, a varsity AC comes in after the JV HC gets tossed?
For both parts, no one who isn't already a part of the team is supposed to be allowed to continue the game. So for your second question, that would be OK, since that assistant is a part of the program.

While I'm about 95% sure this shouldn't be allowed, I will admit to one thing I'm not certain about, is if a home team JV HC gets tossed, and, say the school's head football coach is in the gym, can he take over since he is clearly certified? Still pretty sure no, since they are not part of the team, but I don't believe that would violate any NFHS rule. I'm going to check on this...
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2015, 12:15pm
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Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
For both parts, no one who isn't already a part of the team is supposed to be allowed to continue the game. So for your second question, that would be OK, since that assistant is a part of the program.

While I'm about 95% sure this shouldn't be allowed, I will admit to one thing I'm not certain about, is if a home team JV HC gets tossed, and, say the school's head football coach is in the gym, can he take over since he is clearly certified? Still pretty sure no, since they are not part of the team, but I don't believe that would violate any NFHS rule. I'm going to check on this...
Ok, got clarification from a state evaluator here, and he says it just has to be school personnel. As far as the certification is concerned, that's on the school to be in compliance, not our job. Sort of like quarter limits for JV/V players.
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2015, 12:16pm
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Thanks Adam. I wonder how you check with your state? Anyhow my own reasoning and rules knowledge would suggest a forfeited game seeing as you probably cant allow anyone to fill in....
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2015, 12:37pm
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Originally Posted by Carlos2283 View Post
Thanks Adam. I wonder how you check with your state? Anyhow my own reasoning and rules knowledge would suggest a forfeited game seeing as you probably cant allow anyone to fill in....
Suspend the game and let the powers that be figure out whether to forfeit it or resume it at a later date.
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2015, 04:22pm
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The answers you seek can be found at...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos2283 View Post
Thanks Adam. I wonder how you check with your state? Anyhow my own reasoning and rules knowledge would suggest a forfeited game seeing as you probably cant allow anyone to fill in....

www.uiltexas.com/basketball

The UIL sets all rules & procedures that schools must follow regarding player eligibility, coaches certification, contest requirements, etc. The docs are lengthy and sometimes difficult to read but its all there. For the most part we are not concerned with this set of rules as we are there to enforce NFHS rules but this is one of those times its a good idea to have read over the uil basketball plan, manual & contest rules. So that you can read tem at your leisure, here are the answers to your questions as they apply in Texas.

Q1:

High School & Middle School coaches must be an employee of the district licensed to teach in Texas (or a retired coach or administrator) and be certified in CPR/First Aid/AED, Concussion Training, UIL Rules Compliance Training, and the NFHS Coaches course.

Since it is the school administrations job to verify these credentials then all we would be required to verify in your OP situation is that the person taking over the team is an employee. So, pretty much anyone at the game who works for the school district (doesn't have to be from that school) is good to go -- the administrator, the teacher running the concession stand, the cheer coach, some kid's mom who is a kindergarten teacher, etc., etc., etc.

All you need to do when this happens again in a UIL is ask for the administrator and give them a limited amount of time to find an appropriate replacement coach. Keep in mind this would not be the same for an "off-season" tournament.

Q2:

As previously answered by another poster, give them the prescribed amount of time and then it becomes a delay situation. Just as above, if there is someone else in the gym who "can" serve as coach then they should grab them fast and at least get the game started. But, it's not on us to get that done.
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2015, 04:33pm
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www.uiltexas.com/basketball

High School & Middle School coaches must be an employee of the district licensed to teach in Texas (or a retired coach or administrator) and be certified in CPR/First Aid/AED, Concussion Training, UIL Rules Compliance Training, and the NFHS Coaches course.
You HAVE to be a teacher to coach in Texas??? While I agree it makes things easier from the district's POV, I'm shocked that that would be an actual requirement.
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Old Sun Jan 11, 2015, 07:30pm
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You HAVE to be a teacher to coach in Texas??? While I agree it makes things easier from the district's POV, I'm shocked that that would be an actual requirement.
For public schools, which are governed by the UIL, the coach MUST be a full time employee of the district. While technically a non-certified employee like a custodian or teachers aide could coach this practice has largely been discontinued because of FLSA laws, so the reality is 99.9% of the coaches in our state are certified teachers (including but not limited to PE). Only a retired coach or administrator can be hired as a part-time coach and then only as an assistant.

There are schools under other governing bodies such as TAPPs (parochial/private) that do allow for outside, part-time coaches. Also, this requirement would not apply to AAU, clubs, eec leagues, etc. that are not associated with the UIL.
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Old Mon Jan 12, 2015, 12:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
For both parts, no one who isn't already a part of the team is supposed to be allowed to continue the game. So for your second question, that would be OK, since that assistant is a part of the program.

While I'm about 95% sure this shouldn't be allowed, I will admit to one thing I'm not certain about, is if a home team JV HC gets tossed, and, say the school's head football coach is in the gym, can he take over since he is clearly certified? Still pretty sure no, since they are not part of the team, but I don't believe that would violate any NFHS rule. I'm going to check on this...
Dad can come down and coach without violating NFHS rules. States set these requirements.
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Old Mon Jan 12, 2015, 10:45pm
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Rich1, does the UIL have anything to say about a coach being ejected in the first game of a double header returning for the second game?

I had a situation when I started where I should have tossed a coach in the first game. I didn't but I realized she was the only coach for both games.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2015, 12:27am
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Rich1, does the UIL have anything to say about a coach being ejected in the first game of a double header returning for the second game?

I had a situation when I started where I should have tossed a coach in the first game. I didn't but I realized she was the only coach for both games.

I don't know of any thing that would prevent them from coaching in the second game unless there was a sport specific rule from NFHS or other rules organization. For the most part, the UIL is concerned with eligibilty and contest rules but adopts game rules from organizations like NFHS. Each school plays in an Athletic Competition District that can adopt penaltues for misconduct but they usually don't since it is self governed.

There is a procedure for coaches who are ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct but it would take several days at best to work through it. In a nut shell, when a coach is ejected the Athletic Director has 3 days to notify the UIL. They will then consider the facts and may publicly reprimand (tey print your name in the back of the coaches magazine) or suspend the coach if warranted. I believe this would only apply if he got two direct techs, not for an ejection from three indirects since that would not involve unsportsmanlike conduct. Its much more cut and dry for other sports.

I can tell you that my AD is all over the bball coaches (all the caches actually) at my school about getting techs. He does not lik to have to talk to the UIL or have the name of our district in the naughty part of the mag.
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Last edited by Rich1; Tue Jan 13, 2015 at 12:31am.
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Old Tue Jan 13, 2015, 03:19am
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In our area, if we dq a player, other than for 5 fouls, or eject a coach, we must file a report within 24 hours, with the HS Activites Assn. If the dq or ejection is upheld, that player or coach must sit out all subsequent games through/including the next game at that same level.
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