Wrong Way to Start the 4th

[crosscountry55]

Middle School basketball can be an interesting laboratory.

Never saw this before, but I'm the R setting up to inbound the ball at the start of the 4th. I point (with verbal color) the correct direction as the players come to the ball, and also just before I give the ball to A1. I also correctly put the thrower between myself and his basket. And my partner is taking up a spot as the new L under A's basket.

Nonetheless, Team B is asleep and setting up to play defense on the wrong end of the court. Team A goes right along for the ride, but I can't tell for sure if the thrower and his pass recipient are aware of this or not, so thinking they may want to take advantage and score an easy bucket, I put the ball at A1's disposal.

...And of course A2 gets the inbound and starts dribbling toward B's basket. Doh! Team A gets a shot off and misses. At this point I'm thinking, "I let A go the wrong direction, so to be fair maybe I should let B go the wrong direction, too, and hope that they figure it out in the process." They didn't....and scored, and then finally I blew the whistle. My partner and I credited the basket to A, and then we went the correct direction.

My question is....the rule states that when by mistake, the officials permit the teams to go the wrong direction (usually this happens after the opening tip or sometimes after halftime), when recognized, count all the stats to that point and just go the correct direction. But what happens when the officials don't make a mistake and the teams go the wrong direction anyway? Did we do this right, or should I have been more insistent before the quarter started when it was clear Team B was playing defense on the wrong end? Or maybe after one (vice two) possessions we should have blown it dead to correct it?

I actually have no idea what the proper procedure or protocol is here. Looking for some advice so I do it right the next time this happens. Thanks.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Middle School basketball can be an interesting laboratory.

Never saw this before, but I'm the R setting up to inbound the ball at the start of the 4th. I point (with verbal color) the correct direction as the players come to the ball, and also just before I give the ball to A1. I also correctly put the thrower between myself and his basket. And my partner is taking up a spot as the new L under A's basket.

Nonetheless, Team B is asleep and setting up to play defense on the wrong end of the court. Team A goes right along for the ride, but I can't tell for sure if the thrower and his pass recipient are aware of this or not, so thinking they may want to take advantage and score an easy bucket, I put the ball at A1's disposal.

...And of course A2 gets the inbound and starts dribbling toward B's basket. Doh! Team A gets a shot off and misses. At this point I'm thinking, "I let A go the wrong direction, so to be fair maybe I should let B go the wrong direction, too, and hope that they figure it out in the process." They didn't....and scored, and then finally I blew the whistle. My partner and I credited the basket to A, and then we went the correct direction.

My question is....the rule states that when by mistake, the officials permit the teams to go the wrong direction (usually this happens after the opening tip or sometimes after halftime), when recognized, count all the stats to that point and just go the correct direction. But what happens when the officials don't make a mistake and the teams go the wrong direction anyway? Did we do this right, or should I have been more insistent before the quarter started when it was clear Team B was playing defense on the wrong end? Or maybe after one (vice two) possessions we should have blown it dead to correct it?

I actually have no idea what the proper procedure or protocol is here. Looking for some advice so I do it right the next time this happens. Thanks.

Should have a backcourt violation before anything else weird happens. Take this opportunity to get everyone lined up in proper direction.

[frezer11]

If it's a middle school game, and I think there's confusion, I probabaly wait until I feel confident that both teams know the proper direction. I really think MS is different from a varsity game here, and I would feel bad putting a ball in play if I think/know something is off.

I couldn't tell from the OP, but if the officials know what's up, then the natural progression of the game will stop at worst after one made basket. Either there will be a backcourt violation, or the team who incorrectly shot at their own hoop would have to be the team to put the ball in play

[johnny d]

Your concerned about proper procedure in a middle school game? I cant remember the last time I did a middle school game, but I would handle the situation as follows. First, I would have told B they were defending the wrong basket before I ever allowed A to inbound the ball. If the A coach doesn't like that, too bad for him. He will either get over it or he will get a tech. Second, if you knew they were going the wrong direction, and you had told them the correct direction, then when B got the ball, they were in team control in the front court, and they took the ball into the back court before they scored. If I had allowed the situation to get to the point you had (which I would not have) I would have stopped it with an over and back call. You might have had one on team A as well, depending upon where they inbounded the ball.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Should have a backcourt violation before anything else weird happens. Take this opportunity to get everyone lined up in proper direction.

Coach....that is a great, great point and a shockingly simple way to end this mess early. Thanks!

Conversely, if he passes into the backcourt to begin with, I suppose I could just start a 10-second count. A missed shot wouldn't end it because it wouldn't be a try. If the ball goes in, blow the whistle, credit the basket to B, and then we go the right way. If B rebounds a miss and goes the other way, they'll advance their way right into their own backcourt violation.

Yup. Knew there was a better way than the way I did it. Got this one in the brain bank for later.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Your concerned about proper procedure in a middle school game?

I'm concerned about proper procedure in all my games.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

...And of course A2 gets the inbound and starts dribbling toward B's basket. Doh! Team A gets a shot off and misses. At this point I'm thinking, "I let A go the wrong direction, so to be fair maybe I should let B go the wrong direction, too, and hope that they figure it out in the process." They didn't....and scored, and then finally I blew the whistle. My partner and I credited the basket to A, and then we went the correct direction.

I'm a bit confused by this paragraph. When you say they didn't, does that mean they shot at the hoop that A just attempted a shot at? Because if so, then that means they did it right, and I don't know why you gave the points to team A. If they didn't, then crossing mid court should've ended the play with a backcourt violation

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I'm a bit confused by this paragraph. When you say they didn't, does that mean they shot at the hoop that A just attempted a shot at? Because if so, then that means they did it right, and I don't know why you gave the points to team A. If they didn't, then crossing mid court should've ended the play with a backcourt violation

I meant Team B didn't realize they were headed to Team A's basket after Team A shot at Team B's basket.

But water under the bridge. I realize I completely kicked it. Should have had a backcourt violation on A right after the inbound. I was overthinking the "officials permit the teams to go the wrong direction" rule, which didn't even apply in hindsight.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Middle School basketball can be an interesting laboratory.

Never saw this before, but I'm the R setting up to inbound the ball at the start of the 4th. I point (with verbal color) the correct direction as the players come to the ball, and also just before I give the ball to A1. I also correctly put the thrower between myself and his basket. And my partner is taking up a spot as the new L under A's basket.

Nonetheless, Team B is asleep and setting up to play defense on the wrong end of the court. Team A goes right along for the ride, but I can't tell for sure if the thrower and his pass recipient are aware of this or not, so thinking they may want to take advantage and score an easy bucket, I put the ball at A1's disposal.

...And of course A2 gets the inbound and starts dribbling toward B's basket. Doh! Team A gets a shot off and misses. At this point I'm thinking, "I let A go the wrong direction, so to be fair maybe I should let B go the wrong direction, too, and hope that they figure it out in the process." They didn't....and scored, and then finally I blew the whistle. My partner and I credited the basket to A, and then we went the correct direction.

My question is....the rule states that when by mistake, the officials permit the teams to go the wrong direction (usually this happens after the opening tip or sometimes after halftime), when recognized, count all the stats to that point and just go the correct direction. But what happens when the officials don't make a mistake and the teams go the wrong direction anyway? Did we do this right, or should I have been more insistent before the quarter started when it was clear Team B was playing defense on the wrong end? Or maybe after one (vice two) possessions we should have blown it dead to correct it?

I actually have no idea what the proper procedure or protocol is here. Looking for some advice so I do it right the next time this happens. Thanks.

Originally Posted by johnny d

Your concerned about proper procedure in a middle school game? I cant remember the last time I did a middle school game, but I would handle the situation as follows. First, I would have told B they were defending the wrong basket before I ever allowed A to inbound the ball. If the A coach doesn't like that, too bad for him. He will either get over it or he will get a tech. Second, if you knew they were going the wrong direction, and you had told them the correct direction, then when B got the ball, they were in team control in the front court, and they took the ball into the back court before they scored. If I had allowed the situation to get to the point you had (which I would not have) I would have stopped it with an over and back call. You might have had one on team A as well, depending upon where they inbounded the ball.

We do not like it when Coaches want to officiate the game for us. We do not coach the players in the game we officiate. We don't know if Team A is trying to fool Team B in order to get an uncontested layup.


I would say you were very very wrong for whacking a HC who may have set up a play as I described in my paragraph above.


You and your partner were 50% correct. Score the FG for Team B, and then put them in the correct direction.

MTD, Sr.

[just another ref]

At any point at any level, when you realize A is attacking the wrong basket and B is defending that wrong basket, you whistle it dead and fix it.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by just another ref

At any point at any level, when you realize A is attacking the wrong basket and B is defending that wrong basket, you whistle it dead and fix it.

I disagree. There is no provision in the rules for us to stop the game when nothing has happened. When a violation has occurred, or a basket scored at the wrong hoop, then I will blow it dead and straighten things out.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I disagree. There is no provision in the rules for us to stop the game when nothing has happened. When a violation has occurred, or a basket scored at the wrong hoop, then I will blow it dead and straighten things out.

But something has happened. For some reason, everyone involved in the game has become disoriented. This is quite a significant thing.

4-5-4: If by mistake officials permit a team to go the wrong direction, when discovered all points scored, fouls committed, and time consumed shall count as if each team had gone the proper direction. Play shall resume with each team going the proper direction based on bench location.



It says when discovered resume going the proper direction. You don't wait for any certain thing to happen before you stop the game.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But something has happened. For some reason, everyone involved in the game has become disoriented. This is quite a significant thing.

4-5-4: If by mistake officials permit a team to go the wrong direction, when discovered all points scored, fouls committed, and time consumed shall count as if each team had gone the proper direction. Play shall resume with each team going the proper direction based on bench location.



It says when discovered resume going the proper direction. You don't wait for any certain thing to happen before you stop the game.

+1

MTD, Sr.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But something has happened. For some reason, everyone involved in the game has become disoriented. This is quite a significant thing.

4-5-4: If by mistake officials permit a team to go the wrong direction, when discovered all points scored, fouls committed, and time consumed shall count as if each team had gone the proper direction. Play shall resume with each team going the proper direction based on bench location.



It says when discovered resume going the proper direction. You don't wait for any certain thing to happen before you stop the game.

If by mistake the officials... In this scenario, or at least the one I'm referring to, the officials knew the correct direction. That article is to clarify what to do if players and officials screw up and it is not noticed until multiple trips up and down the court have occurred.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by frezer11

If by mistake the officials... In this scenario, or at least the one I'm referring to, the officials knew the correct direction. That article is to clarify what to do if players and officials screw up and it is not noticed until multiple trips up and down the court have occurred.

You'd have to give me all the details of your scenario.