Shooting at the wrong basket case plays

[bballref3966]

I must be misunderstanding Case #1 if my ruling is not applicable.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... in the spirit of "teaching to fish"

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll learn to sit in a boat, and drink beer, all day.

[BillyMac]

These questions can't be answered (the way the original poster intended the situation to be) until the original poster cleans up his language in regard to whose basket is really being shot at. Otherwise, we will confuse ourselves to death trying to answer the questions. We can try to figure out what he really meant, but we're not mind readers.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

I must be misunderstanding Case #1 if my ruling is not applicable.

It is not a try when a player attempts to score at the wrong basket. Look under the definition of a try.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by Adam

It is not a try when a player attempts to score at the wrong basket. Look under the definition of a try.

The OP's situation described the player shooting at his "own basket," which would be a try.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll learn to sit in a boat, and drink beer, all day.

I'll drink to that.

MTD, Sr.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

These questions can't be answered (the way the original poster intended the situation to be) until the original poster cleans up his language in regard to whose basket is really being shot at. Otherwise, we will confuse ourselves to death trying to answer the questions. We can try to figure out what he really meant, but we're not mind readers.

Originally Posted by bballref3966

The OP's situation described the player shooting at his "own basket," which would be a try.

Well, his subject did indicate the shots were at the "wrong" basket even if his subsequent description was not consistent with that. Given that "wrong" is pretty much clear, it doesn't matter if he doesn't understand the technicalities of which basket belongs to each team. His point and questions were clear enough.

The actions in the OP's cases were not trys.

Then, the question about whether the action (in case #1) is legal or not depends on other factors not mentioned. Did the player move/jump in the process of throwing the ball at the wrong basket and retrieving the ball?

In the 2nd case, the ball becomes dead at the time of the foul and it is not a shooting foul. The fouled player would only shoot FTs if his/her team were in the bonus. The basket will only be counted if it had passed through the basket at the time of the foul, otherwise, no score since the ball would have been dead.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

His point and questions were clear enough.

Clear? Really?

Originally Posted by Adam

It is not a try when a player attempts to score at the wrong basket. Look under the definition of a try.

Originally Posted by bballref3966

The OP's situation described the player shooting at his "own basket," which would be a try.

The subject line "wrong basket" does give us a clue about what he wants to know, and I think that I know what he means, but his actual post wording has still created a lot of confusion on the Forum, among some pretty astute Forum members.

I like Camron Rust's answers, but they can still be challenged based on confusion regarding the wording "own basket".

It's just a poorly written question that really can't be answered.

Do you still beat your wife? Do you really want to answer that?

[Rich1]

Assuming that the OP intended the question to be about a player who is "shooting at the wrong basket" and therefore ignoring how said basket is labeled, then I posit the following for consideration:

The legality of #1 would depend on what he did before he let go of the ball and what he did after he caught it. This could be a traveling violation if he moved without starting a dribble (but not just because he threw the ball in the air and then caught it). Since this is not a TRY then any dribble/pivot situations have not ended. Most likely would have to be a judgement call. See 4.44.3D(b).

In #2, a player who has been fouled will only shoot free throws at their own (correct) basket; never at an opponents basket unless you have screwed up. And, we would only be shooting free throws in this situation if his team was in the bonus.

Also in #2, the basket would not count because, since it is not a TRY, the ball is dead when the foul occurs. It does not matter if the ball has been released or not -it is no different than a ball in the air that has been passed between teammates. Another way to look at it is to consider that if the shooter would not get two free throws if he was fouled and missed in this situation then the basket won't count if it went in. See 4.41.2

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich1

Also in #2, the basket would not count because, since it is not a TRY, the ball is dead when the foul occurs. It does not matter if the ball has been released or not -it is no different than a ball in the air that has been passed between teammates. Another way to look at it is to consider that if the shooter would not get two free throws if he was fouled and missed in this situation then the basket won't count if it went in. See 4.41.2

That depends on the order of events since "shooters" can be fouled even after the try is successful if they have not yet returned to the floor (perhaps it was a dunk or from very close).

If the ball went in before the player was "fouled" the basket would count...but for the other team, of course. And in that case, there would actually be no foul unless it were intentional or flagrant since the ball would be dead once it passed through the basket and the "fouled" player would not get the benefit of being an airborne shooter since he/she is not even a shooter.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Clear? Really?





The subject line "wrong basket" does give us a clue about what he wants to know, and I think that I know what he means, but his actual post wording has still created a lot of confusion on the Forum, among some pretty astute Forum members.

I like Camron Rust's answers, but they can still be challenged based on confusion regarding the wording "own basket".

It's just a poorly written question that really can't be answered.

Do you still beat your wife? Do you really want to answer that?

My wife has a saying when I start getting picky about her words,
"Don't make me connect the dots when you already know what the picture looks like."

We knew what he meant based on the title and the 2nd scenario.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

My wife has a saying when I start getting picky about her words,
"Don't make me connect the dots when you already know what the picture looks like."

We knew what he meant based on the title and the 2nd scenario.

Most definitely...and the fact that several people pointed out that he incorrectly labeled the baskets, so it was obvious what his intentions were with the question.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

The OP's situation described the player shooting at his "own basket," which would be a try.

Immediately after a "defensive rebound" - it's clear (to most of us at least) that he did not actually mean his "OWN" basket (otherwise the questions are nonsensical anyway). He meant the basket his team was defending ... the opponent's basket.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Adam

My wife has a saying when I start getting picky about her words,
"Don't make me connect the dots when you already know what the picture looks like."

We knew what he meant based on the title and the 2nd scenario.

Agree. And the fact that it would be nearly impossible to grab a defensive rebound, throw it the length of the court towards your own basket, and then catch it before it came down.

It makes perfect sense to point out the incorrect language, but when otherwise intelligent officials act confused with the intent of question just to make a point, it makes the entire thread more confusing.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Do you still beat your wife? Do you really want to answer that?

Answer: "No, Never have."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

...
It makes perfect sense to point out the incorrect language, but when otherwise intelligent officials act confused with the intent of question just to make a point, it makes the entire thread more confusing.
...

You mean like relabeling time-outs as an "extended stoppage of play"?

Who would do that?