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-   -   Shooting at the wrong basket case plays (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/98448-shooting-wrong-basket-case-plays.html)

Afrosheen Mon Sep 29, 2014 01:21am

Shooting at the wrong basket case plays
 
I've ran into a couple plays of recent where I want to find definitive answers from the rulebook so I'm hoping fellow officials here can help.

Case 1: Player A grabs a defensive rebound then shoots at his own basket but it's an air ball. He catches the rebound before the ball hitting the floor. Is this a violation or legal since it is still considered a shot attempt.

Case 2: Player A shoots at his own basket with Player B fouling him during his shot attempt. The basket is good. Does Player A shoot a free-throw at his opponent's basket?

APG Mon Sep 29, 2014 01:36am

I'm assuming you want NFHS citations.

Case 1: You need to look at rule 4-44-2 for the definition of a try. From your question, I think reading this will help answer your question

Case 2: Case book play 4.41.2

bob jenkins Mon Sep 29, 2014 08:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrosheen (Post 940781)
I've ran into a couple plays of recent where I want to find definitive answers from the rulebook so I'm hoping fellow officials here can help.

Case 1: Player A grabs a defensive rebound then shoots at his own basket but it's an air ball. He catches the rebound before the ball hitting the floor. Is this a violation or legal since it is still considered a shot attempt.

Case 2: Player A shoots at his own basket with Player B fouling him during his shot attempt. The basket is good. Does Player A shoot a free-throw at his opponent's basket?

You might want to check that assumption.

It will help you answer both questions.

(in the spirit of "teaching to fish")

Raymond Mon Sep 29, 2014 08:49am

and this is not football, the defense does not defend its own basket.

JRutledge Mon Sep 29, 2014 08:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 940788)
and this is not football, the defense does not defend its own basket.

+1

Peace

AremRed Mon Sep 29, 2014 09:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 940788)
and this is not football, the defense does not defend its own basket.

I wish the NFHS would standardize this across its sports, in soccer you shoot at the opponents goal as well.

JRutledge Mon Sep 29, 2014 09:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 940790)
I wish the NFHS would standardize this across its sports, in soccer you shoot at the opponents goal as well.

It is probably because at other levels in other sports use the same language. I do not think the NF needs to change anything to make people in football or soccer happy. Basketball at all levels to my understanding use the same language as to which goal you are shooting at or defending. Same language in football as to whose endzone.

Peace

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Sep 29, 2014 09:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 940790)
I wish the NFHS would standardize this across its sports, in soccer you shoot at the opponents goal as well.



By definition/rule: In NFHS, NCAA, and NBA/WNBA a player shoots at his/her team's basket; and in FIBA, a player shoots at his/her opponent's basket.

MTD, Sr.

AremRed Mon Sep 29, 2014 09:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 940792)
It is probably because at other levels in other sports use the same language. I do not think the NF needs to change anything to make people in football or soccer happy. Basketball at all levels to my understanding use the same language as to which goal you are shooting at or defending. Same language in football as to whose endzone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 940794)
By definition/rule: In NFHS, NCAA, and NBA/WNBA a player shoots at his/her team's basket; and in FIBA, a player shoots at his/her opponent's basket.

Makes sense. I withdraw my suggestion.

bballref3966 Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:06am

Case 1: Legal. A player can always recover a failed try for goal. Whether or not it touches anything is irrelevant.

Case 2: As others have said, in basketball, the "wrong" basket is the opponent's basket. If you throw the ball at the opponent's basket, it is not a try for goal, and therefore you cannot be fouled in the act of shooting. The ball is dead when the foul occurs, you have a common foul (most likely), and there is no score. If the team of the player that was fouled is in the bonus, go from there.

Now, if the teams are shooting at the wrong goal because of the officials' error, we have an entirely different situation.

Camron Rust Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bballref3966 (Post 940808)
Case 1: Legal. A player can always recover a failed try for goal. Whether or not it touches anything is irrelevant.

Case 2: As others have said, in basketball, the "wrong" basket is the opponent's basket. If you throw the ball at the opponent's basket, it is not a try for goal, and therefore you cannot be fouled in the act of shooting. The ball is dead when the foul occurs, you have a common foul (most likely), and there is no score. If the team of the player that was fouled is in the bonus, go from there.

Now, if the teams are shooting at the wrong goal because of the officials' error, we have an entirely different situation.

You might want to rethink #1.

JRutledge Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 940795)
Makes sense. I withdraw my suggestion.

I just wanted you to be aware that this is the culture of the sport. I can see why as a multiple sport official you would come up with that suggestion. We do not make these decisions anyway. So your suggestion is not something we can do anything with at this time. Certainly, no hard feelings, just the way it is for whatever reason.

Peace

Adam Mon Sep 29, 2014 01:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrosheen (Post 940781)
I've ran into a couple plays of recent where I want to find definitive answers from the rulebook so I'm hoping fellow officials here can help.

Case 1: Player A grabs a defensive rebound then shoots at his own basket but it's an air ball. He catches the rebound before the ball hitting the floor. Is this a violation or legal since it is still considered a shot attempt.

Case 2: Player A shoots at his own basket with Player B fouling him during his shot attempt. The basket is good. Does Player A shoot a free-throw at his opponent's basket?

Whether #1 is legal depends upon information that we don't have: but your assumption is incorrect. That seems to be the main assumption that is confusing you on both cases.

bob jenkins Mon Sep 29, 2014 01:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bballref3966 (Post 940808)
Case 1: Legal. A player can always recover a failed try for goal. Whether or not it touches anything is irrelevant.

That statement is correct, but it might not (probably does not) apply to the OP.

MD Longhorn Mon Sep 29, 2014 01:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bballref3966 (Post 940808)
Case 1: Legal. A player can always recover a failed try for goal. Whether or not it touches anything is irrelevant..

All of what you say is correct... except for the word "legal".


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