Player Game Entry

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A player is one of five team members who are legally on the court at any given time.

Sounds good, but what defines the court?

Aren't team members considered players if they're sitting on the bench during a sixty second timeout (not an intermission)?

I know that all team members are considered bench personnel during intermissions. This rule becomes important when deciding to charge, or not to charge, a coach with an indirect technical foul for technical fouls on players, or on bench personnel, during a timeout, or an intermission. Let's not treat this too casually, it's important, so let's try to figure it out.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sounds good, but what defines the court?

Aren't team members considered players if they're sitting on the bench during a sixty second timeout (not an intermission)?

I know that all team members are considered bench personnel during intermissions. This rule becomes important when deciding to charge, or not to charge, a coach with an indirect technical foul for technical fouls on players, or on bench personnel, during a timeout, or an intermission. Let's not treat this too casually, it's important, so let's try to figure it out.

A player who was a player before the timeout remains a player during a timeout, I believe...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A player is one of five team members who are legally on the court at any given time. If B5 does not enter the court, he isn't a player. So the 4 on the court in this case are all the players.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Aren't team members considered players if they're sitting on the bench during a sixty second timeout (not an intermission)? Let's not treat this too casually, it's important, so let's try to figure it out.

So do we let just another ref's post stand, or does it have to be adjusted? I'm not sure that rookie officials should be hanging their hats on just another ref's statement. Then again, I may be wrong. I have been wrong in the past. Lots of times.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Aren't team members considered players if they're sitting on the bench during a sixty second timeout (not an intermission)?

No. The Players are still Players and the Team Members are Team Members during a time out.

See 4.34.1

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No. The Players are still Players and the Team Members are Team Members during a time out.

SECTION 34 PLAYERS/BENCH PERSONNEL/SUBSTITUTES/TEAM MEMBERS
ART. 1 A player is one of five team members who are legally on the court
at any given time, except intermission.
ART. 2 Bench personnel are all individuals who are part of or affiliated with
a team, including, but not limited to: substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and
statistician(s). During an intermission, all team members are bench personnel for
the purpose of penalizing unsporting behavior.
ART. 3 A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court.
If entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live.
A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or
after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.
ART. 4 A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform
and is eligible to become a player.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Aren't team members considered players if they're sitting on the bench during a sixty second timeout (not an intermission)?

Maybe I should have said: Aren't those on the team considered players if they're sitting on the bench during a sixty second timeout if they were players before the timeout and not substituted for?

Bottom line, they don't have to be within the boundary lines (inbounds) of the court (blue line all the way around) to be considered players, as implied by just another ref's post:

Originally Posted by just another ref

A player is one of five team members who are legally on the court at any given time ... If B5 does not enter the court, he isn't a player. So the 4 on the court in this case are all the players.

[just another ref]

In the OP, the timeout is over. If B5 is on the bench, he is not a player.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

In the OP, the timeout is over. If B5 is on the bench, he is not a player.

Assuming B5 was not an entering substitute, and was a player before the time out, and during the timeout (it's not an intermission), why is he no longer a player after the timeout out, even while sitting on the bench. I'm truly not trying to give anybody a hard time, I just want to understand the rule, including the definition of a player versus bench personnel. Pretend that I'm from Missouri. Citation please.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Assuming B5 was not an entering substitute, and was a player before the time out, and during the timeout (it's not an intermission), why is he no longer a player after the timeout out, even while sitting on the bench. I'm truly not trying to give anybody a hard time, I just want to understand the rule, including the definition of a player versus bench personnel. Pretend that I'm from Missouri. Citation please.

I can see where this can/would cause confusion. According to 3-3-3 there are only two ways a player ceases being a player:

*after (their) substitute becomes a player
*after notification of the coach following (their) disqualification

No one substituted for B5 so their "player" status never ended.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I can see where this can/would cause confusion. According to 3-3-3 there are only two ways a player ceases being a player:
*after (their) substitute becomes a player
*after notification of the coach following (their) disqualification

One more (not in 3-3-3): During an intermission.

4-34-1: A player is one of five team members who are legally on the court
at any given time, except intermission.