The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:57pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I don't have it handy, but is the rule book different from the case book:
Yes: "A player holding the ball after gaining control while on the floor.........may not attempt to get up or stand."

Is there a difference between "getting up" and "getting to the feet"?

Also, the rule book doesn't mention that the player can't roll over.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 26, 2014, 06:23pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Fahrenheit 451 ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
The rule book doesn't mention that the player can't roll over.
You're correct. The rulebook doesn't say that a player can't roll over, but the casebook does say that a player can't roll over.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control.
A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without
violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once
A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over.


I get what you're saying, but let's not confuse the issue for rookies, and for those that just joined the discussion.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 06:27pm.
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 27, 2014, 11:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 592
And just to clarify (focusing on the "no longer sliding" in red from Billy), if a player dives after a ball, grabs said orb and doesn't like the chest burn he/she is getting -- while momentum continues to glide this person across the floor -- he/she may "rotate"/twist on to the buttocks before coming to a stop and THEN faces the no-rollover restrictions, right?

Seems this is actually a fairly common occurrence for this scenario (diving, possessing, twisting so as to be sitting for better view/passing opportunities).
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 27, 2014, 12:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Travel.

The only action permitted when lying on the floor it to sit up. And I have never seen a person "sit up" from their belly (or any other position) to their knees as that would be getting up, not sitting up. Sitting up would be from their back to their butt.

Rising to the knees is a partial attempt to stand. Basically, the rule doesn't allow them to get to a more advantageous position aside from the specific one listed (sitting up).

Plus, if they had been on their back, and got to that position, you'd have had a rollover first....traveling long before they got to the knees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I agree on the issue of the player on his back going to his knees. That's a travel.

A player on his stomach going to his knees, however, has not done anything prohibited by rule, IMO. I don't see it as an attempt to stand.
Getting to this a little late but I have to agree with Camron.

Player is flat on his stomach. To stand, he will either
1- rolling over on to his butt
2- put both hands on the floor and walk up with his feet
3- or rise to a his knees.

When he rises to his knees, his attempting to get up. It make no difference whether he makes it to his feet or not. Attempting to get up constitutes traveling.

Attempt get up OR stand? If he goes from stomach to his knees, he has removed his torso from the floor. It may not be an attempt to stand but he certainly did get up.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 27, 2014, 12:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman View Post
And just to clarify (focusing on the "no longer sliding" in red from Billy), if a player dives after a ball, grabs said orb and doesn't like the chest burn he/she is getting -- while momentum continues to glide this person across the floor -- he/she may "rotate"/twist on to the buttocks before coming to a stop and THEN faces the no-rollover restrictions, right?

Seems this is actually a fairly common occurrence for this scenario (diving, possessing, twisting so as to be sitting for better view/passing opportunities).
Yep.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 27, 2014, 08:37pm
AremRed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I asked an official I respect about situations like this and he said "reward good play and penalize bad play".

Don't fully know what that means, but maybe it will help someone trying to understand this play.
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:26am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
I asked an official I respect about situations like this and he said "reward good play and penalize bad play".

Don't fully know what that means, but maybe it will help someone trying to understand this play.
Honestly, it sounds like a quote from someone who doesn't want to look up the rule.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 28, 2014, 01:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Honestly, it sounds like a quote from someone who doesn't want to look up the rule.
Or, want to just not call anything unless they're forced to....which is really not good for the game.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 28, 2014, 02:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 2,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
I asked an official I respect about situations like this and he said "reward good play and penalize bad play".

Don't fully know what that means, but maybe it will help someone trying to understand this play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Honestly, it sounds like a quote from someone who doesn't want to look up the rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Or, want to just not call anything unless they're forced to....which is really not good for the game.
Let him try that one with his supervisor, especially if he works college ball. I don't think his supervisor will be too happy.
__________________
"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example."
"If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..."
"Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4."
"The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge)
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 01, 2014, 11:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
I asked an official I respect about situations like this and he said "reward good play and penalize bad play".

Don't fully know what that means, but maybe it will help someone trying to understand this play.
Suggest you find different official to respect.
__________________
Some people are like Slinkies...
Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Reply With Quote
  #41 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 02, 2014, 12:06am
AremRed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mregor View Post
Suggest you find different official to respect.
I talked to him the other day and he clarified it for me. Of course he calls the game by the rules....but this is one thing that helps him with the gray area plays and overall game management.
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 01, 2018, 12:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SLC Utah
Posts: 567
Roll over is traveling?

Situation

A player is on their butt with the ball. They are on their right hip and here comes a defender to take the ball. They roll to their left hip lifting their right hip off the ground and pass to their point guard.

Was this attempt to get up... I dont think so.

Did this give them advantage? I think so?

Is their right butt/hip considered a pivot like foot and changing that pivot to the left butt/hip considered changing pivots?

I wish the rule book made this clearer because half the referees I see call nothing and half call a travel.

My friend says roll over means rolling as 180 degree barrel roll. I see this as more advantage partially rolling away from a defender who comes to tie up the ball.

I want the opinions here with any reasoning why that I can use on my partners/coaches to make me a better referee. I see this play happen I want to be more confident inside and out when I make my decision.

Thanks in advance.
__________________
BigT "The rookie"
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 01, 2018, 12:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Situation

A player is on their butt with the ball. They are on their right hip and here comes a defender to take the ball. They roll to their left hip lifting their right hip off the ground and pass to their point guard.

Was this attempt to get up... I dont think so.

Did this give them advantage? I think so?

Is their right butt/hip considered a pivot like foot and changing that pivot to the left butt/hip considered changing pivots?

I wish the rule book made this clearer because half the referees I see call nothing and half call a travel.

My friend says roll over means rolling as 180 degree barrel roll. I see this as more advantage partially rolling away from a defender who comes to tie up the ball.

I want the opinions here with any reasoning why that I can use on my partners/coaches to make me a better referee. I see this play happen I want to be more confident inside and out when I make my decision.

Thanks in advance.

The travel rule doesn't contain anything related to "advantage" (and even if it did, it would be to NOT call something that is technically a violation if it DOES NOT gain an advantage. )


Even if this were true, it would only then be illegal to put the right check back on the floor.


The play you describe is legal -- this does not constitute a "roll."
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 01, 2018, 12:39pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Situation

A player is on their butt with the ball. They are on their right hip and here comes a defender to take the ball. They roll to their left hip lifting their right hip off the ground and pass to their point guard.

Was this attempt to get up... I dont think so.

Did this give them advantage? I think so?

Is their right butt/hip considered a pivot like foot and changing that pivot to the left butt/hip considered changing pivots?

I wish the rule book made this clearer because half the referees I see call nothing and half call a travel.

My friend says roll over means rolling as 180 degree barrel roll. I see this as more advantage partially rolling away from a defender who comes to tie up the ball.

I want the opinions here with any reasoning why that I can use on my partners/coaches to make me a better referee. I see this play happen I want to be more confident inside and out when I make my decision.

Thanks in advance.
Assume it is not a travel unless you can find something definitive in the rule book that states this action is a travel.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 01, 2018, 03:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
No travel. Rocking form hip to hip, while sitting, is not attempting to get up nor is it rolling over.

Rolling over is a player is turning from the stomach to the back, or from laying on their right side to laying on the left side.....something like a full 180 degree change of orientation.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BI/GT Refresher Please? rekent Basketball 7 Mon Mar 04, 2013 07:45am
Deadspin: It's not traveling unless Duke says it's traveling Rich Basketball 1 Mon Feb 23, 2009 09:21pm
Refresher tjones1 Basketball 0 Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:40am
3-man Refresher tjones1 Basketball 4 Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:15pm
refresher on GT Adam Basketball 2 Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:27pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1